Domestic violence services shouldn't stigmatise dads

[eyeisbloke]

Hi Mums and Dads,

If anyone would like to sign a petition asking the Royal Borough of Greenwich replace their ‘Dad’s have the strength to change’ poster you can do so here: www.change.org/p/chief-executive-royalgreenwich-gov-uk-have-the-strength-to-change-domestic-violence-services-shouldn-t-stigmatise-dads …

Despite numerous complaints and national newspaper coverage the council have defended their choice of words, stating that the campaign is designed to help all family members at risk and that 'whilst women can also be the cause of domestic violence, the majority of incidents are committed by men.'

Such a perception is highly questionable. Research repeatedly shows that women perpetrate physical and emotional abuse at comparable rates to men [1] and that domestic violence is most commonly reciprocal [2].

According to the council's own estimates, 1 in 4 women and 1 in 6 men in your Borough will experience domestic abuse. Based on this, is a message suggesting that men accessing their services will likely be perceived as perpetrators is really the most effective away of addressing violence against vulnerable people of either sex?

I hope you can show your support.

[1]www.prweb.com/releases/2013/5/prweb10741752.htm
[2]pb.rcpsych.org/content/35/1/33.1

Don't really want any unsolicited PMs...But would like coaching in how to include 'rhetoritician' in more sentences. It's a failing I have..

Just once, I'd like to see decent men stand up and say "These other men, these deadbeats that don't bother to support their children, that don't bother to help raise their children, or that abuse their partners and their children, these so-called men are not acceptable. They need to be called out in public, they need to understand how unacceptable they are." And then those men need to follow through with it. They should push for stricter laws and better child maintenance enforcement (one that doesn't cost the resident parent money!!). And socially shun those wretched men that do these things. Not sit back with a beer while they commiserate about how their wife doesn't know her place and just let it stand. Challenge them. Support women that are struggling with this and show that it's not men against women it's nonabusers against abusers.

This this this!!!! But not just once, but I want to see this happening every single day. Abuse shouldn't even be a "women's issue" and its a fucking disgrace it is seen as one. It should be an issue for society.

Jump in men - campaign against abusers and abuse. Raise awareness. Call your mates out on their shitty tactics and abusive behaviour instead of whining about a poster that is actually trying to help vulnerable people and raise awareness as to what is going on in many homes. Confront sexism when you see it. You can make a massive difference and help change the "norm".

If you were really interested in helping men that suffered from DV/DA you would be campaigning for more help for them.

I'm a dad, I'm not violent or abusive. Therefore I'm not the target audience. Seems simple and logical to me. Well done whoever put the campaign into motion I say.

Maybe we could have one saying "Men stopping raping people" too. That's get my vote as well, why? Yep, because I'm not a rapist!

Jeez, this is GSCE level English, look at the whole poster, I don't get the issue. F4J aren't being very smart here.

" I respect that personal experience may have a bearing on how people view this issue"

My dad was delightful. He'd be sitting on the nope bench too.

My Dad is an arsehole who claims to be a feminist all the while using his position of genuine privilege and power to sexually exploit the much younger and vulnerable women he so "kindly goes out of his way to help".

He'd never raised a finger to anyone though. He'd be tutting about the injustice with you OP and he would sign your petition.

Which is the bigger problem?

Two women die each week at the hands of a partner or ex? or some chaps are a bit put out by a poster??

I don't see how you can prioritise the latter without not really giving a damn about the former.

Men's feelings are more important than women's lives. That's the message of this petition.

My dad wasn't an abuser either. Quite the opposite - he was an internationalist 'new man' (without the dubious conotations now associated) well before the term was invented. He would look at this 'petition' and give it a side ways look and probs say "oookkayyy" in a nice gutteral weegie accent.

No sign of the OP at all?

Sitting on the no bench.

Another nope. I've brought a spare bench....

Wow, I guess I've been incredibly naive but I'm genuinely surprised to see such an overwhelmingly negative reaction from mumsnet parents, particularly on a dadsnet thread.

There are too many comments to respond to all of them but I'll respond to a few before I bow out of this discussion.

Men's feelings are more important than women's lives. That's the message of this petition.

I'm sorry that anyone would think that. Personally I think it's an extremely clumsy poster that will likely do little for victims of either sex (even within the context of the overall campaign). The vast majority (90%) of people polled by the Daily Telegraph agreed that it stereotypes all men as perpetrators of violence.

If you were really interested in helping men that suffered from DV/DA you would be campaigning for more help for them.

The motivation behind the petition is to help draw attention to the lack of services and the type of stereotypical attitudes that impact on this.

bossycat linked to independent (full fact) site discussing relevant stats on domestic abuse from British Crime Survey etc. I'm informed by the same statistics and I understand vast majority of violent offences are by men etc

I suggest you Google some feminism 101 articles regarding "Not all men".

I'm not making any excuses for men who are violent. Based on my own personal experience, my view is that addressing cycles of IPV isn't helped by demonising one sex and dismissing any attempt to highlight some of the complexities with 'not all men' rhetoric.

Again I’ll emphasis that attempting to discuss this issue is not meant to detract from the experiences of female victims.

mumsnet parents

I'm not a parent. Why are you only interested in parents?

OP, I am pretty sure your naivety around the reality of DV in the UK extends well beyond a critique of the poster. I'm taking you on face value as being 'honest-hearted' but that only goes so far. I'd think a very well evidenced response on this thread from DV sufferers and those working in this field should lead you to desist from this petition.

But I am also doubting this will be the case.

There is not a lack of services for men. Services set up to support men suffering violence have generally closed because of a lack of men to support.
Meanwhile women and children get turned away from refuges every day. That is the real scandal.

and a Daily Telegraph on-line comment 'poll' is presented as 'evidence'? That goes beyond naivety.

Nope, nope, nope-ity nope.

And you aren't in Kansas Dadsnet any more, OP, but in
petitions.

Shove up you nopeys. Another nope from me OP. Another, yeah, it was definitely my dad. And my mum probably counts in your statistic as reciprocal violence, when she belted him with a stool (to stop him from beating my then 4 yr old brother to death). And so I'd rather you addressed your attention and energy to him, really. It's men like him giving you men a bad name, it's him you should be pissed at.

If a drink driving campaign features a 30 something woman, I consider they must be targeting 30 something women who drink drive. As that's not me, I don't feel targeted.

oooh Dadsnet as Oz Kansas. Harsh.

When you are getting beaten by a brute who you have no hope of escaping from you are not thinking about endless references to stats and what newspapers print or a poster. All you want is to die and get the pain over with or to try and find some strength to run. I am aware that men do suffer violence but not very many.
Men are usually stronger and heavier than women so assert their strength on the little wifie often when drunk. I managed to get away from my pig of a husband. The violence is no longer with me but the emotional scars are and always will be.
So sorry but you can stuff your petition, not interested never will be. Couldn't give a damn but I do give a damn that women are still suffering and I do give a damn and donate to WOMENS AID who really helped me.

Those 1 in 6 men who experience violence, are all the perpetrators women?

My dad raped my mum to punish her for wanting to leave their abusive relationship and he still plays the fucking victim now.

It's a nope from me. Any room on the bench?

I remember reading some research where the researcher went back and interviewed men who had reported violence from their female partners. A high proportion of men admitted they had either made up the violence, or that they had been hit in response to their own violence.
The 1 in 6 stat is bullshit.

Dear bloke, my mother once stabbed my father with a fork. It made some tiny punctures in his face. Definitely violence. He had just thrown the Sunday dinner she cooked at her, on the plate, after a tediously predictable morning of raging all over the place, thumping her hard around the head and doing the same to all of us. Several days a week were like that. We all knew we'd be clearing up the mess from his thrown dinner, not him.

I once threw a full, heavy bottle at my ex. It missed, but could have killed him if I had better aim. Definitely violence. He constantly put me down, frightened me, cheated on me and hit me.

All the stats I've seen about partner violence show that women who eventually 'snap' generally have suffered months or years of severe, continuing abuse. My experiences above fit that model: one act of violence committed versus countless acts suffered. Of course there are viciously abusive women, there are people of every description you can imagine. But I think you'll find the proportions are vastly skewed.

Leaving all of that aside, what on earth makes you think all dads will take this campaign as aimed towards them? When I see ads telling me not to eat so much junk food, I don't get all indignant because I don't eat any junk food, so how very dare they I just assume the ad's talking to people who do eat it.

... which might lead one to wonder, why did you feel this ad was talking to you?

[nope]