Why don’t the editors stop this?

[ScaredOfFlying]

I’ve lost count of the number of times I’ve heard “I” used in a TV voiceover when it should have been “me” e.g. “Time for Phil and I to make these househunters see sense”.

Now I see two glaring examples in the captions for Holly Ramsay’s wedding spread in British Vogue (attached).

I’m curious- these programmes and publications have editors and writers. Are they
(a) unaware that it is incorrect
(b) aware but think it’s more authentic to speak in the “voice” of the presenter/article subject?
(c) of the view that this usage is now so widespread that language has evolved and it’s now correct?

And how could “me, me, me“ conceivably be better?

I once went with my school on a visit to another school that was supposed to be brilliant (it wasn't). After a tour the Deputy Head said 'You have all saw a lot of things'. [wince]

Nothing to do with youth. John Torode has been doing it regularly on Masterchef, e.g. "They're cooking for Gregg and I". . I'm quite looking forward to watching it without shouting "Gregg and me, you idiot" at the screen on a regular basis.

He’s Australian

Just take the other person out of it, if you’re unsure and think which you’d chose - I went to church / me went to church - it becomes clear then.

You might have been but it would probably when referring to a speech or something.
You needn't have an aversion to it.

The 'My husband and I...' was probably used instead of saying 'I ...'.
'I and my husband...' sounds like your husband is less important than you. 'Me and my husband ...' is poor grammar.

I certainly wasn’t suggesting using myself as an alternative to ‘I’! 😅

In letter writing for example, or essays about what we did in the holidays, we were discouraged from a list of ‘I did’s. I was pondering whether other people could have taken up the intensely irritating reflexive business in response to that.

I myself certainly do not! 😉

Hearing it wrong drives I up the wall.

That was probably more about style - 'I did this then I did that. After that I did the other thing' is just boring. I don't think it was simply about using I.

I don’t follow why Torode being Australian is some sort of get-out clause for him? Australian English grammar doesn’t legitimise the usage I describe.

Also don’t accept that presenters not having RP accents has anything to do with it. It’s not accent or dialect-related. And it’s an insult those of us with non-RP accents to suggest that it is!

I've watched Location, Location, Location and Kirstie does use Phil and I incorrectly.

As a teacher myself, I have to agree. There are so many teachers (old and new) with very poor understanding of written English and they’re incapable of teaching the required National Curriculum content. They can’t correct mistakes made by children when they can’t even spot them on the page.

Interestingly, I was taught that "The reason/s why" is incorrect (regardless of is/are) as using both is redundant.

So you could say "The reason I didn't come is that X...", or "I didn't come because X..." (with "because" essentially functioning as "why" here).

Very few people seem to bother about that nowadays. Language evolves, I suppose.

@ChuisEpuisee , are you trying to say that you were taught to use "I didn't come because X..." instead of "The reason I didn't come is that X..."?

As a teacher myself, I have to agree. There are so many teachers (old and new) with very poor understanding of written English

I think most of the people who are old enough to have learned proper English at primary school are now past retirement age.

Probably. I remember quite some time ago (I have been retired for 11 years) there was a year 6 sats question something like 'The boy had a red umbrella ' - which word is the definite article? Only two us knew the answer, I was an Early Years teacher and the other was KS1, the KS2 teachers were saying is it 'umbrella'? They thought it was a difficult question.

Posts on MN from alleged teachers tend to contain errors.

@CaptainMyCaptain(who I sense may be a person of authority among these pedants) speaks sense.

My poor wee 6 year old is being taught about adverbs when he has no hope really of understanding the concept! He needs to learn about sentences first, be familiar with words and the order in which they usually appear, learning how conjunctions work - but not that they’re CALLED conjunctions. “Joining words”, at most. Then, LATER, when he’s a bit more intellectually mature, more formal grammar should be overlaid on that foundation.

@CaptainMyCaptainare the ridiculously complex grammar lessons so early on a hangover from Gove’s time at Education, do you know?

No, trying to say that I was taught not to use "the reason/s" together with "why".

So you should (apparently!) not say "I don't know the reason why he didn't come" - you should instead say "I don't know the reason he didn't come" or "I don't know why he didn't come".

OK.

"Phil and I" in the OP's example just sounds better to me than "Phil and me". Another poster added a link to Grammarly, and the above paragraph is from there.

It’s genuinely interesting that you think it sounds better because I think it sounds insane. I can hardly take meaning from the sentence because my brain is trying to understand if it has misheard.

Yes. It's a Gove thing. I didn't have to teach it myself as I taught younger children but there was staffroom chat and my grandchildren had English homework. The thing is, using adverbs and even fronted adverbials is best learnt by enjoying good literature both reading it and listening to it. Bring back the story at the end of the day!

Agreed.

My school paid a fortune for a scheme of work where each English unit centred around a book. Wonderful! Only… reading the book wasn’t included in the sequence of lessons. It was bizarre, boring and difficult. We weren’t “allowed” to deviate from the prescribed planning and read the book to the children.

HRTFT so please forgive me if this repeats earlier comments, but a pp’s observation about (wrongly) avoiding ‘I’ to seem less self-centred does ring true. It’s even more obvious in the ‘myself’, ‘yourself’ plague that you hear so often.

Customer call handlers, for example, seem incapable of saying ‘me’ or ‘you’. I think that’s because it’s a more direct and personal-sounding form of speech.

”When you find the order number call myself back”; or “we have no record of payment by yourself”; that sort of thing.

It’s bloody irritating.

This is the reason, people think its “proper” to say “and I” without knowing there is a grammatical rule. It’s the same reason people don’t pronounce the T in Moët. (Also incorrect, also annoying!!)

I was always taught to think about how you would phrase the sentence if it was just you, would you use “me” or “I?” And then that’s your answer.