Why don’t the editors stop this?

[ScaredOfFlying]

I’ve lost count of the number of times I’ve heard “I” used in a TV voiceover when it should have been “me” e.g. “Time for Phil and I to make these househunters see sense”.

Now I see two glaring examples in the captions for Holly Ramsay’s wedding spread in British Vogue (attached).

I’m curious- these programmes and publications have editors and writers. Are they
(a) unaware that it is incorrect
(b) aware but think it’s more authentic to speak in the “voice” of the presenter/article subject?
(c) of the view that this usage is now so widespread that language has evolved and it’s now correct?

It only sounds 'wrong' because we somehow believe that saying "I" is correct. Phil & me is grammatically correct in the instance given.

It's a bit like people saying "Don't hesitate to reach out to myself..." when it should be "me".

It's not used this way though. It's used in the 'he gave it to myself' or 'you should remember to include myself in all emails.'

I spent years married to a Scot, so I'm fine with all forms of casual usage like this, but the way I am referring to - is just wrong.

It would be OK in hiberno English to say "you can drop that off to myself or Mary " but the two examples you gave wouldn't be OK. It's all very subtle.

I’m pretty sure that people posting here would mention it if they were discussing anything other than standard English.

It is the worst type of over-correction, and nobody seems to understand the rule.

AND ME! AND ME! AND ME!

Yes, Masterchef is probably the worst offender! Hopefully will improve when Grace (a writer) starts to present with someone else. I have always found it amazing that Torode and Wallace were never pulled up on it. Their words would have been partly scripted as well.

I was pointing out to the poster that the use of myself/yourself/etc is not necessarily a sign someone thinks they are more educated than they are. The poster's example wasn't "standard English", whatever that is, either.

It is not correct.
“Time for Phil and I to make these house hunters see sense”. Remove Phil and it would be “Time for I to make these house hunters see sense”. , which isn't correct.

"Phil and I made these house hunters see sense." is correct.

I’m Scottish. I don’t think we universally use “myself” in the same way the Irish do. It’s not a feature of my family’s manner of speaking, or of my part of the country I don’t think.

With respect to those who brought up “myself” it’s been done to death on other threads.

So has 'me' versus 'I'. The fact it's been done before doesn't stop us wanting to cover it again.

This isn’t a question about why people in general say “I” when they should say “we” though. It’s a question about why people who know the correct usage and are in a position to model it in the media choose not to do so.

Yes you are.

@ScaredOfFlying I believe it’s because the producers do not themselves know the correct grammar/pronunciation of British English and they also think that audiences don’t particularly care. The BBC used to have very strong adherence to standards (which included pronunciation) but all that has been ditched. We now have presenters with regional accents and dialects, which means that enforcing correct grammar can be tricky, as any variation can be claimed to be “local”. (I always thought Torode could be let off because he’s Australian.)

I agree OP about anything printed- there is opportunity to correct it and to educate those writers.

I don’t agree that we can educate adults to change their speech patterns. I suppose we could only choose as presenters those adults whose speech is always grammatically correct, but we’d be returning to that rather prim sounding BBC voice of the 50s.

Presenters are supposed to sound authentic rather than scripted. They are relatable. I doubt many people’s speech is entirely grammatically correct. I’m sure mine isn’t. I understand the I/me rule but probably slip up in conversation.

I’m currently working to remove ‘hence why’ from DS’s speech. He had a ‘myself’ phase as well.

It's incredibly depressing, OP. I think it's because in general, people just don't care and the editors don't see it as being important.

I commented on a hideous, glaring, apostrophised plural on the headline of an advert on Facebook, from an outdoor clothing company. Instead of thanking me and amending the error ASAP, I received a sarcastic reply about how they prefer to concentrate on keeping customers warm. (Clearly impossible to do both.) It matters. It lowered your company's credibility and looked ridiculous. People are far more interested in abrasively defending their right to mangle grammar, spelling and punctuation, than they are in ensuring what they write is correct.

And you’d be wrong @ICantBeDoingWithThat 🤷🏻‍♀️

I do wish that more of an effort was made to pronounce 'th' though. It's ubiquitous now to hear it a 'f'. Fousand, fink, free, fought... Really, really irritating.

“Myself” is an awful habit. One of my colleagues uses it all the time. It makes me wince!

The way people use personal pronouns is truly bizarre. There seems to be an inbuilt aversion to saying “I” when it should be used yet shoving it in when it shouldn’t.

People cannot bear to say anything that might make them sound like QE2 “my husband and I”. This means that they will say “me and my husband went to x” when they would never say “Me went to X”. I have posted about this before and called it baby language. What I also find strange is that in that example, people will put themselves before the other person, whereas I was taught that you always put the other person first, out of politeness.

Yet, for some reason the same people will use “I” exactly as you have described, in other situations. When I posted about this a few weeks ago, I called it pirate language because it really does sound like a Devonshire pirate or Captain Pugwash. “He gave it to Phil and I”, but wouldn’t say “He gave it to I”. Unlesss “I be a pirate, I be, me hearties”.

I think there’s some underlying feeling that makes people feel uncomfortable with the correct usage. I hesitate to say “correct“ and ‘should” because we then get a lecture about how language changes but what really puzzles me is that the speaker can’t hear how awkward this all sounds.

It’s not a new phenomenon. In earlier centuries, the misuse of personal pronouns, especially in the first person, was used by authors to denote rural or less well educated speakers.

so… dialect?

People rarely hear themselves accurately. I suspect we are all less consistent than we think!
Years ago someone used a term I was unfamiliar with, several times in one brief conversation. I asked him what it meant. He said he didn’t know and denied using it. It had become a verbal tic for him, scattered liberally for emphasis but without intention or meaning.

I’m sure I remember being taught to avoid ‘I’ for fear of sounding egotistical.
That could be the root of the aversion!

It’s my biggest bugbear too.

DH and I quite often mutter “me” under our breath when people get it wrong, and don’t get us started on less/fewer, number/amount!

I suppose we could only choose as presenters those adults whose speech is always grammatically correct, but we’d be returning to that rather prim sounding BBC voice of the 50s.

It is possible to speak grammatically correct English and still have a regional accent and not sound like someone from the 1950s. The former newsreader Huw Edwards for example had a Welsh accent but spoke correct English.

Very irritating and widespread.

Honourable mention I keep seeing in work emails “May you?” 🤮

Closely followed by “we was…”

I hope it wasn't a teacher who taught you that.