Why don’t the editors stop this?

[ScaredOfFlying]

I’ve lost count of the number of times I’ve heard “I” used in a TV voiceover when it should have been “me” e.g. “Time for Phil and I to make these househunters see sense”.

Now I see two glaring examples in the captions for Holly Ramsay’s wedding spread in British Vogue (attached).

I’m curious- these programmes and publications have editors and writers. Are they
(a) unaware that it is incorrect
(b) aware but think it’s more authentic to speak in the “voice” of the presenter/article subject?
(c) of the view that this usage is now so widespread that language has evolved and it’s now correct?

It's time for (Phil and) me to make these househunters see sense.

No, you are still wrong.
The test is to take the other person out i.e. the "Phil and", then see if the sentence should have I or me, as if you were the only person.

My question was about your confidence in asserting that you don't think you are wrong - how can you be so confident when you are, in fact, wrong?

You've got another think coming, then.

It's time for me to do XYZ.
It's time for Phil and me to do XYZ.

You wouldn't say "...time for I...", would you?

at school, we were taught that you use the pronoun which fits if you take out the extra person. So, “Time for me to go….” , therefore “Time for Phil and me to go…”.

What I suspect you were taught is that "Phil and I are going to do XYZ". Because "Phil and I" is the subject of the sentence.

But "it's time for Phil and me..." is different because Phil and narrator are no longer the subject in that sentence.

Incorrect grammar is rife on tv these days. I find myself repeating what’s been said, inside my head amended to correct grammar. I suppose grammar isn’t formally taught at primary any more? That would account for it. Have any of the edito4s heard of Fowler’s? Would they u derstand the entries if they had a copy (is that really rude?!).

Ah, could be actually, Schnizel

The test I was taught is to take out the complicating reference to another person - in this case ‘Phil and’.

Would it sound right to say ‘Time for I to make these house buyers see sense’?

No, it wouldn’t. It would sound ridiculous and awful because it is wrong. We don’t say ‘Time for I to do x’; we say ‘Time for me to do x’.

If the statement was recast as ‘Phil and I urgently need to …’ then of course the ‘I’ would be correct. The complicating factor is the ‘Time for’ phrase which has altered the structure of the sentence and the role of the pronouns.

But not ‘another thing coming’ hopefully.

I think grammar is taught very well from a young age now. However, there are lots of us who went to state school in the 80s and 90s who were taught very little grammar.

Grammar is most definitely a large part of the primary curriculum. However, when children are surrounded by poor grammar from adverts, social media, parents, and local dialects, I, and other teachers, are engaged in a war that cannot be won!

How many times do you need to be told before you believe it?

Myself voted for yourself 😂

ETA: OP is correct

Ha ha ha. Mis-correcting a correct post. Red card.

People think it's all hoity toity and grand to use "I", and somehow wrong and common to use "me".

They don't know the rule, but editors should.

Yes. They think it's 'common' to say me in all circumstances because, as I said above, they've been told not to say 'Phil and me are going to the shops'. They therefore try to remember to say 'Phil and I are going to the shops' but unfortunately they also say things like 'that's a job for Phil and I later'. There may be more grammar being taught in primary schools but I wonder how much of it is understood. Given the abysmal state of language learning in the UK, I'd guess not much.

🏳️‍🏳️‍🏳️‍ Right. Okay. Every day is a school day, isn't it.
Thank you Pedants for putting me straight so comprehensively.
It's lucky my livelihood doesn't depend on my being 100% correct, gramatically speaking. 😘

Goodness, what a lot of activity. Funny, I didn’t even think of the “it’s time for Phil and I to…” example as being one that wasn’t obviously wrong!

For context, I was educated in the 1980s, don’t formally remember being taught any of this but my parents were strict about speaking properly and knowing when to use “I” and when to use “me” feels absolutely second nature; I don’t ever have to work it out.

So when I hear people getting it wrong on TV it’s like a massive klaxon and I just can’t fathom why the editors who work on these programmes don’t feel the same. Thinking of my own social circle I’d say that many have similar levels of education to the type of person I’d expect to find as a TV writer or editor and they all know and use the correct grammar.

I do feel like the editors do know, but it might be deliberate, anticipating that the target audience might hear an “I” as too “posh” or teacher-like. Which is a shame as anyone unsure might well look to broadcast media for guidance and the “if you can’t beat ‘em, join ‘em” approach feels very defeatist.

They do loads of grammar at primary school but it tends to be unnecessary stuff like fronted adverbials.

Yes you are.

In order to figure out whether you use me or I you simply remove the other person from the equation. You wouldn't say "Time for I to make...". You would say "Time for me to make...". The me/I doesn't change just because Phil has joined in.

Sometimes the bad grammar comes from the teachers. There's no hope.

But it is right!!

That’s probably what’s happened here - the writer thinks that ‘I’ sounds better than ‘me’, but they are wrong.

Myself/yourself/etc are commonly used in Hiberno English. It's a more casual or intimate way of expressing yourself rather than what is referred to in Ireland as "having notions", which is how it is used in some other dialects.

E.g. "Is it yourself that's in it?" is a reasonable way to greet someone you're surprised to see.

John Torode is terrible for this on B Masterchef: ‘You’re going to cook a meal for Grace and I’ - arghhh!

re the Vogue article, it’s probably a similar lack of knowledge, or thinking that ‘I’ sounds ‘better’…

I was going to say that surely Kirstie would have had an expensive education and should know better. But apparently she went to ten different schools, so must have missed that lesson.

I too was taught to take out the other person to see which was correct.