It's ARSE! 🇬🇧

[BlowDryRat]

Unless you're American, in which case it's "ass".

But if you pronounce "arse" with a non-rhotic accent as most English people do, "arse" and "ass" have a similar sound, except for the broader "a" in "arse."

They are essentially the same word and have the same etymology.

It was definitely used by my grannies in our part of Scotland.

We use it in NI, which was part of the UK last time I checked. Are we wrong? Do only the English get to decide how the English language is spoken, even though they exported it around the globe by various means?

My favourite author is Dean Koontz - he is American, and he used to teach/lecture English (American English). So as I have known this for many years, why do I still get frustrated when he uses the word "gotten" as it is correct terminology for him?

I think that my reaction to him using the word "gotten" just proves to me what a pedant I really must be!

By the way, he always uses a variation of the word "susurration" at least once in every book he writes. I love looking out for it, as it is a delicious sounding word, and I am intrigued to see how it affects whatever he is describing - I think that he sometimes reaches 'genius level' in the ways he uses it!

If British people want to avoid features of American English, I suggest that they stop consuming so much American media.

You appear not to have understood the whole point of the thread

Oh sweet baby Jesus, you just don’t get it do you. I have no issue with Americans using American English. I can cope perfectly well with reading books, watching films etc made by Americans using American English. My problem is with people who have never set foot outside the U.K. taking about diapers, ladybugs and sidewalks. There is nothing wrong with those words but they are the American terms.

My English teacher hated the word got. Always a better word to use in its place. If we had said gotten I think she would have fainted.

I believe that Denmark and perhaps Iceland are funding a lot more TV and other media in Danish and Icelandic because they are concerned that young people are starting to talk in English even amongst themselves due to the amount of American tv, films, YouTube and TikTok they consume. Are those countries dreadful xenophobes or just trying to preserve their culture?

What about the Greek government who recently said that a certain percentage of music played in Greek hotels had to be Greek? Xenophobic too?

I didn't mean it as a gotcha, just an interesting article. I wasn't aware of it until discussing with a friend. Could have knocked me down with a feather when I saw it.

I still want to know where the "i" went in aluminium.

Returning to the ass/arse thing, I feel I ought to point out that here in Cornwall I've heard many a member of the farming community use the former, and not when referring to a beast of burden.

Many of these are either archaic or as part of the standalone phrase “ill-gotten”. Nobody is saying that it wasn’t used in the 18th and 19th centuries.

I hear all the people who report common contemporary use of “gotten” by people in various parts of the British Isles. Nonetheless I stand by my observation that it is becoming more widespread amongst people from areas where it was not used (this includes the part of the Central Belt of Scotland where I grew up).

I believe that people are picking it up not from hanging out with fellow Brits who use it in their areas, or Irish people, but from US media. My own son is an example of this-never hears it from parents or school but he does throw it into a sentence now and again.

Ironically, given how bad-natured this discussion became, I don’t actually mind “gotten” all that much. It’s not in the league of diaper (or stroller, which I don’t think has been mentioned yet). However if I see “gotten” in writing I would consider that a very strong flag that the writer is American. I don’t even mind Americanisms in general, but I do think it’s important that those non-Americans who use them do so knowingly.

As for whether pedants’ corner is a place for general discussions about the evolution of language, I disagree. The whole point of the creation of the board (I was there when it happened) was to create a “safe space” for people who were derailing threads in other places with criticisms of SpaG and vocabulary choice. “Pedant” has negative connotations and those who self-define as pedants tend to be doing so in the full knowledge that their views are going to rub more tolerant people up the wrong way. The idea of having a corner was to create a self-indulgent echo chamber where such views could be freely expressed!

And no, that doesn’t mean that it is a racist and xenophobic free-for-all. It was intended to be lighthearted, with the observations limited to language only. Yes, I can see how some of those observations could be read as code for racist and anti-immigrant sentiment but I genuinely believe that the average user of this board does not have that intent.

"Can I get" when someone ordering food or drink in a cafe. Yeah sure, come round and get it but it's fine, I'm paid to help you".

There is nothing wrong with "can I get" (in either American or British English) unless you want to quibble with the can/may distinction, which will probably be gone in a few years anyway. Get means "come to have or hold (something); receive." It does not have some sort of built in reflexive. To ask someone "can I get" can mean "can I receive".

This thread is so amusing, both for all the thread policing and the opportunity to play MN Americanism Bingo.

Many of these are either archaic or as part of the standalone phrase “ill-gotten”. Nobody is saying that it wasn’t used in the 18th and 19th centuries.

And yet, interestingly, the "gotten" form has survived in British English as the past participle for "forget" and "beget."

exactly!.

But not as bad as, for instance. 'I was sat in the bath when the phone rang'
Makes me quiver with horror inside.

And how do Americans deal with the Bible? 'Jesus rode into Jerusalem sitting on an ass' (or something like that that].

But not as bad as, for instance. 'I was sat in the bath when the phone rang'
Makes me quiver with horror inside.

So true. And happily, "I was sat" is not a form common in American English. We use the correct "I was sitting."

As for Jesus riding on an ass, as with quite a few English words, context is our friend here.

I have always felt that the use of “regular” as opposed to “standard” or “normal” is very American -“Can I get a regular coffee please?”l’m just a regular guy”, but I hear it more and more in the UK.

Nobody seems to have mentioned being excited for something yet. Grates on me, it was always excited about.

Also “different than”.

Oh yes, this is one of my dislikes.

This is true, but sometimes I'd wonder if Americans would think 'well of course he's sitting on an ass, what else would he sit with! (note, I was much younger when I thought this).

Also, I find the word 'arse' much 'arsier' than the word 'ass'. Saying 'I told him he could shove it up his ass' is much blander than 'I told him he could shove up his arse'

Imagine Father Jack Hackett shouting 'Ass' in Father Ted!. It'd just kill it

Interestingly, most Americans are rhotic speakers (ie the pronounce the “r” in words).

So “arse” is particularly satisfying to say as an American (or Scot/Irish/West country person). They are missing out.

Isn't it Hello? I am sure I was told that Hi was American. And also ok.

OK is of US origin, but 'Hi' comes from 'Hey' which has been around since Middle English was spoken; the 'split' of American English didn't happen until the 17th Century.

When did "named after" (like wot I learned growing up in London) morph into "named for" ?

And who do I write to to change it back ?