I have been called racist. I want to argue my case against this charge in very precise, pedantic terms - so here I am.

[monkeytrousers]

Mehdismummy, please tell me why I am a racist?

and I am shit at spelling too.

I'm not sure who you think I am.

yawn no i can imagine your choice of books mt. I bet darwin is in there somewhere eh! The problem is you only read books with one point of view. Never the other side. Sorry if i offended you with the tabloids. I meant broadsheets.

Tell me, how do you know that I only read books with one point of view?

I don't read the broadsheets either.

So what is the problem here? This is pedants' corner, we need specifics from both of you. Mehdismummy, can you give precise examples of racist statements that MT has made? MT can you explain what your position on Islam is exactly?
Then we would have some idea what is going on.

gosh monkeytrousers, you will end up with a reputation for starting threads about threads where you have been justly or injustly disagreed with, why dont you stand your corner on the thread in question, where the debate is, rather than start new threads? Who is playing the sympathy card?

Whether it is racist or not, or even anti "insert XYZ religion here", is besides the point, but sometimes it pays to show some sensitivity towards other peoples beliefs, be it cultural or religious, it is common courtesy.

so when you linked a comment from a broadsheet on the thread that got deleted then you had not actually read it then? You started that thread to wind people up.

You know what, it doesn't matter Mehdismummy - you can dream up any picture of me that you like to bolster your prejudice. I have had my retraction, anything else is just endulgence and I really don't want anything to do with this vile bitching.

bitching started by whom? get some sense.

QS, it was someone elses thread - that's called hijacking. I did it out of respect for the woman whose thread it was.

i dont need to imagine you mt you are a startingly attractive woman with an incredibly beautiful family. I just think you should read books which are less one sided

My views are these:

There is no need to experience something to know that it is wrong.

Being anti-Islamist is not the same thing as being anti-Islamic.

Being anti-Islamic is definitively not the same as being racist.

There is no reason that we should not express negative opinions about any religion, since a religion is a belief system and not a people. Anti-Islam is not the same thing as Anti-Muslim.

There is no reason to be sensitive about things that you feel are morally utterly abhorrent. Whichever culture is practising it. That is patronising.

sorry, for 'sensitive' read 'sensitive in expressing a negative opinion about..'

Jeez, MT, you're taking a bit of a battering here!

I read the circumcision thread and did not infer any racism or anti-Islam stance in your posts. It's clear to me that mehdismummy has ishoos with you from another thread and is weaving that into other non-relevant ones. Her accusation of racism on that thread came from nowhere.

I think you were right about drawing a line tbh. I think this might be a case of cyber wires getting crossed. And I think you were right to start a fresh thread.

Nicely put, Onebat. Anyone else?

Objecting to certain abhorrent cultural practices (such as mutilating a child's genitals) isn't racist - how could it be? Objecting to/discriminating against people based on their race/nationality/religion is wrong of course, but that's not the same thing.

Wow.....

agree with sophable and blu

Sophable: "having said that it is a part of a religious/cultural reality, and you might be as likely to find an adult who was angry that his parents didn't circumcise him as an infant as the operation is far more complex and potentially dangerous in adulthood."

But the anti GM argument is not that it is dangerous (though it is.) It is that it is child abuse.

My views on this are the same as onebatmother's.

Mehdismummy why does it bother you so much what MT thinks anyway? Surely everyone is entitled to voice their opinions on threads without being attacked in such a way.

What's wrong with being anti-islamist anyway? It is in no way racist or even prejudiced. However, you seem to be prejudiced against people holding different viewpoints to you, or at least against them voicing them.

sorry, loathe that colon thing in a debate.
Should have put

But Sophable, the anti GM argument etc etc.

Cheers, everyone. I surprised myself by being a bit shaken by this - took me a while to get to sleep, but I think I was right to defend myself against a very serious charge.

I know I sometimes voice some sensitive thoughts about sensitive issues; mostly I am just trying to make sense of them myself by bouncing ideas off people, trying to make sense of some things I read.

I read this book recently, and this quote sums up the difficulty even the most intelligent (and I don't class myself among them, whatever some people think) have debating sensitive things these days;

"?Those who journey from political correctness to truth often risk public disapprobation, but it is notable that most never loose their tolerance or humanity. They may question the politics of race, but not that racism is bad; they may question campaigns about women?s pay, but not that women and men deserve equality of treatment; they may realise that western civilisation ? with its extraordinary ability to create wealth and culture while promoting freedom, equality and democracy ? is, by all measures, the best civilisation that humanity has yet created, but that doesn?t make them Islamophobes.?

Anthony Browne, The Retreat of Reason

(apols for semi-colons OBM!

i dont htink you shoudl chop thing soff babies

certianly not under the auspices of religion
makes it worse imo.

andyway whta right minded person BIEVES Int hat crap these days?

You do it so much better than me, Cod!

i believe in that right minded crap actually cod and i am sure alot of other muslims do to. Glad you can see both sides of the arguement though cod and you hold completly non judgmental view though. Monkeytrousers i doubt very much you were at all shaken by any comments but hey well done for winning the sympathy vote.