Impossible adult daughter still at home

[Worldwearygardener]

My daughter is 25 years old and still lives at home with us. We are retired. She has never had a proper job as she cannot decide on a career that would suit her. We paid for her tuition fees and rent/living fees when she was at university so she has no debt. She works periodically but keeps all the money for herself and never offers to contribute financially to the household in any way.
She does cook meals for the family but always at a time that suits her so it’s often closer to 9 o’clock than 8 o’clock - even though we’d prefer to eat around 7.30pm. If we ask her what time dinner is going to be, she gets very angry and will not tell us. Apart from meal preparation and online food shopping, she does little in the way of household chores.
Our daughter’s love is theatre and we have always supported her fully with this hobby. She doesn’t drive so we take her back and forth to rehearsals and encourage all our friends to see anything she is in. We have not paid for driving lessons as she seems to have no appreciation of her own safety. She goes running in dark, deserted areas whilst wearing headphones - despite us telling her how dangerous that is. Even crossing roads, she expects the cars to stop for her. She doesn’t like to follow rules and doesn’t seem to understand that some rules are put in place to protect her and other people.
Every morning, she takes her breakfast back to bed and regularly stays there until after midday. She will then stay up until the early hours of the morning, usually sitting at the family computer.
In addition to this, our daughter is regularly rude and condescending when interacting with me but is verbally (and occasionally physically) cruel to her father and the two of them rarely speak. This makes him both sad and angry and he takes his anger out on me.
Our daughter has always been very controlling but also volatile. We spend our daily lives treading on eggshells so that we don’t make her angry. I learned very early on that punishing our daughter didn’t work. There was no point in putting her on the “naughty step” as she would never understand that she had done anything wrong. I think she did, and still does, consider me a little unhinged and petty. Taking away any privileges just made her angry with me, it did not encourage her to behave properly.
Our daughter could not enjoy school as she could not respond to discipline and saw little benefit in a good education.
There is no point in trying to discuss all of these issues with her as she refuses to talk through the problems. She flounces away and then there is a horrible atmosphere in the house and nothing is ever resolved.
Our daughter willingly admits that she doesn’t like people although she has a few friends she has made through her drama society.
She struggles to engage in regular conversations unless, again, it is theatre related.
The obvious answer is that she should find a full time job and rent a room somewhere before our relationship with her is ruined completely. However, we love our daughter very much and don’t want to make her life completely miserable. In any case, she could not share a house with people as she demands the kitchen to herself and has some OCD issues.
Any suggestions and advice would be gratefully received.

Stop walking on eggshells. Do as you like in your house. If she ignores you, let her. If she flies into a rage and starts screaming phone the police. Just completely detach from the behaviour and live your lives as normal. Don’t allow her to cook for you. Cook your own meals and eat them when you like.

She obviously has things she struggles with but this does not mean she can treat you as she is. You are enabling her like she is still a child but she is an adult now. I agree with others the first step is to put rules in at home. She buys and cooks her own food, does laundry, makes her own arrangements for getting to places. Once she has adjusted to this then her moving out may feel more possible. She needs a stern chat and an understanding that she cannot live with you in the way she has and of it continues then she needs to leave.

I’m autistic and to me this woman is clearly autistic.

(I hate being asked what’s for dinner too. It’s irrational but having to list the foods winds me up and makes me feel a bit angry. I now know it’s because of the autism (that I’m “wired differently” and don’t react like NTs) so I know to manage myself and say it nicely. How easy that is can vary. The week before my period is the hardest!)

Would she be open to reading Fern Brady’s book to see if she relates?

Are you saying that she hits her father? And that nothing happens when she does except everyone gives her her own way?

OP you have made allowances for your DD all her life, she's an adult now - all the lifts, encouraging friends to attend her shows must stop. You have not prepared her for the realities of being an adult. Much as I hate to say it but what will she do when you and DH aren't around? There will be no one willing to tiptoe round her, giving her lifts and financially supporting her. You've got to prepare her for being an adult - this should have been done years ago. Does she she herself having a family? She needs to get ip and get a job that pays - who will employ her if she gets to 30 and has never worked. Suggest working in the theatre box office - a dancer I knew did this when she couldn't find work.

i don’t think it’s the rude/volitile/ difficult/ abusive stuff that’s hinting to autism to PP. More the OCD tendencies, struggling with sharing space with others, inability to converse with others unless it’s about her special interests, lack of social life etc.

Right now she has absolutely no motivation to change. She can do as she pleases, treat people how she wishes and her life remains comfortable, being financed by her parents and having lifts when she wants it. If you are hoping to see a change in her there has to be a change in how you and your husband treat her. Identify boundaries (no more lifts, she contributes financially as she’ll be getting benefits I’m sure, if she continues to be verbally or physically abusive on a regular basis she’ll be asked to leave), communicate them clearly to her and say unless she behaves appropriately she’ll have to find alternative accommodation. Then schedule in a follow up family meeting with her in a month’s time to review how things have been and whether you’re happy for her to remain living in the family home. It’s important this happens as while you may feel you are doing well by your daughter you’re sadly enabling her and decreasing the chances of her becoming independent and being able to have healthy relationships with others. Sometimes you’ve got the cruel to be kind.

Please stop labelling bad behaviour as "autism". Even if she has autism, that does not excuse poor behaviour at all. And we should not normalise tolerating bullshit behaviour from "autistic people".

Sorry to say, but you have raised an utter spoilt brat, and you continue to enable her bratty ways. You need to let her be miserable for once in her life so she can maybe appreciate the support she's received so far. No way would I accept being disrespected by my child in MY house. No way. I seriously don't get soft, wet lettucey parenting at all. No wonder so many people in society are so maladjusted, entitled and weird.

I agree with the above post. I am autistic and I treat people kindly. Autism isn’t an excuse for poor behaviour, and most autistic people I’ve met are wonderful because we have often been victims of bad behaviour.

However, she does sound like she is potentially autistic. Struggling with relationships and conversations, theatre as a special interest, usual parenting strategies not working, issues at school, appearing controlling due to fixed routines, struggling with a sense of danger, holding down a job (if I work I burnout very quickly and become extremely mentally unwell). But none of these traits mean she should be treating you badly.

I wonder if her seeking a diagnosis might help her and you understand her better? That may be the first step to improving your relationship and helping her become more independent. But I do think you need to enforce more boundaries. No one should have to tread on eggshells in their own house.

Hi OP, I think you may find the PDA Society a useful resource.

I'm not diagnosing someone over the Internet but my goodness this sounds like an older version of my PDA child. If you (and she).have had no support growing up then it's not too late to address problems but it'll take an effort and a mindset change.

www.pdasociety.org.uk/i-am-a-parent-carer/support-for-parents-carers-family/

You're autistic and an Internet post by a third party giving behaviours that you also exhibit doesn't mean they are 'clearly autistic'.

The only way to be sure if this lady is autistic
Is have an assessment
Mine took 3 years through the NHS ,I had to have various relatives fill in forms for me ,my doctor had to agree it was likely ,I had it , for him to agree to refer me ,I had 3 lots of huge forms ,to fill in ,wanting a huge amount of detailed information about my childhood,and then I had two face to face interviews with 3 professionals who all had to agree I was autistic..
So no one on the internet can possibly say for sure ,she is or is not autistic.

First of all , before any of that ,this lady has to agree to be assessed,and has to want to co operate,and to want answers ..

No where has the op said her daughter wants this .
If you count the waiting for the doctor to refer and waiting for the results after the assessment,it's closer to 3 and a half years all in ...
Which actually isn't a bad thing , because I needed that time to read up on autism and get my head round it all .
Anyway op
Good luck with everything

By the sounds of it, she's been given no boundaries or discipline in her younger years. As soon as anyone tried, she threw a wobbler and you backed off. As you are now finding out, it's not done her any favours. She's spoilt, rude, entitled and selfish. You need to stop enabling her behaviour. Start by telling her she needs to pay rent/housekeeping, do her own laundry, and keep her own room tidy/clean. Stop giving her lifts to rehearsals, she's 25, not a child, and she needs to sort out how she's getting there/back. Tell her that she needs to find paid work too. If all else fails, tell her she has 6 months to find a job and accommodation, if she doesn't she'll need to present herself to the local council as homeless. You are no longer facilitating her lifestyle.

I'm diagnosed autistic too and I agree with your post.

Anyone who is rude/patronising/aggressive etc, in fact any adverse behaviour, the lazy 'go to' is to assume the person is autistic. The armchair diagnosis for the lazy of mind.

Perhaps@Worldwearygardener your daughter is just an arsehole and you are enabling her behaviour.

And even if that happened, that doesn't mean that all of the OPs daughters behaviours could be explained by autism or that it would mean anything different for the OP.

People are complex. And as I said upthread, an Autism diagnosis doesn't explain or preclude abuse.

It could possibly be used by the daughter to further abuse and exploit her parents.

Oh come on op, grow a backbone and deal with this. She behaves like this because you let her. She still lives with you because you let her. Stop accepting her treatment of you both. If you want her to move out, tell she has to go, and help her find somewhere - it’s your house! None of us know if there is some disorder or condition going on here - even if there is, the same applies. Support her, but it’s time she lived elsewhere.

You've been afraid to parent her when she was a child and now you're allowing her shitty behaviour to continue.

It's time for your big girl pants and a stern talk. She gets x amount of notice to get a job and move out. And stick to it.

You have other problems though - your husband takes out his anger ON YOU? That needs addressing too. The 'how' is difficult without details though.

I would agree with others above that she sounds like she might be autistic. I usually roll my eyes at armchair ASD diagnoses on here, but there are certainly some things that would be worth investigating. Not because she's rude and difficult - that's not the reason I think it might be worth looking into autism at all. But some of the other things you've mentioned make me wonder.

However, if you want her to behave more like an adult, stop infantilising her. For example:

She goes running in dark, deserted areas whilst wearing headphones - despite us telling her how dangerous that is.

She's 25 years old. She can run where she likes. The risk of her being attacked is actually extremely low. Thousands of women run like this every day. She's a grown woman and you need to stop treating her like a child, ferrying her to activities, fretting about her running and worrying about how she chooses to cross the road. She's not 12 and she will never function like an independent adult if you don't treat her like one.

Sorry but you are enabling this behaviour. Start laying down the rules and making her contribute and give her notice to get out. Get really tough as it’s not doing her any good in the long run.

This.

Your failure to parent her as a child is not her fault. All children will react badly to discipline and it hard, but you persevere because that is when they learn. Any child whose parent backs down will learn that tantrums work. That's not her, it's you and her dad.

If you followed through every time and months later nothing had worked then maybe part of it could be her, but it's very unfair to give up on discipline, enable her for 25 years and say it's all her fault!

But now she's 25 and it's so much harder. You need to sit down with dad, agree house rules, agree consequences for tantrums and follow through.

THANK YOU

My autistic daughter is likeable independent and working hard lives in a house share a hundred miles away

I have an autistic son who is apparently "unusual" because he is friendly and playful it's a ridiculous stereotype

This is what I'm wondering too. If she is physically aggressive, then she needs to leave as soon as possible, with the assistance of the police if necessary.

I’ve no idea why you have pandered to her for so long. But that is what you have done and it has led here. Less pandering when she was younger almost certainly would have helped.

Did something happen that’s made you never say no to her ?

Anyway. Actions for now.

You need to inform her that you will expect rent to be paid from X date. How she finances this is her problem. I suggest 1 month or she will take the piss again.

She will be expected to contribute or she will need to move out. Suggested she “can’t” share because she “demands the kitchen to herself” - this won’t wash. She either has to learn or she rents on her own like everyone else. She may be autistic or she may not. But even so she needs to contribute or (ideally) move out.

Stop driving her places FGS. No wonder she doesn’t want to drive - you do it all for her ! What did you expect ? She needs to drive or get a taxi.

Stop asking her when dinner is. Tell her that you will be eating at 7.30 and if she doesn’t want to cook for them that’s fine. Tell her if she’s not told you food will be ready for then you will make your own food.

Do not buy her food.

I also would agree that reading through the list of complaints you have about your daughter the fact she may be neuro diverse rang bells for me having some experience of autism/pda in our family.

special interests - theatre
lack of danger awareness
doesn’t like rules (pda?)
struggled with school
controlling/volatile (pda)
doesn’t like people
ocd

It sounds like she has got used to being in charge and just sees you as being there to facilitate her demands. She may be autistic (strong suggestions that she is) but even so there is no excuse for cruelty and abuse to her parents. Personally I would try and break this cycle you have fallen into where you drive her around, have meals when it suits her and tolerate her rudeness. She is obviously now too old for removing privileges or putting her on a naughty step but you can say she needs to contribute by getting a job or there will be no more lifts. The downside of this is that her lack of danger awareness may worry you. Can she catch buses? Why don’t you cook for yourself if you prefer to eat earlier? Small baby steps will need to happen I think.

I was thinking this too! I would get her assessed. It is very common for autistic young people to fail to launch into adulthood without the right support. It is also very common for them to be breathtakingly rude and hurtful while being oblivious as to how they were rude or hurtful.

In addition, you are kind of infantilising her by refusing to help her learn to drive and insisting on ferrying her around to her theatre meets. The good thing is you are supporting her passion in theatre.