Impossible adult daughter still at home

[Worldwearygardener]

My daughter is 25 years old and still lives at home with us. We are retired. She has never had a proper job as she cannot decide on a career that would suit her. We paid for her tuition fees and rent/living fees when she was at university so she has no debt. She works periodically but keeps all the money for herself and never offers to contribute financially to the household in any way.
She does cook meals for the family but always at a time that suits her so it’s often closer to 9 o’clock than 8 o’clock - even though we’d prefer to eat around 7.30pm. If we ask her what time dinner is going to be, she gets very angry and will not tell us. Apart from meal preparation and online food shopping, she does little in the way of household chores.
Our daughter’s love is theatre and we have always supported her fully with this hobby. She doesn’t drive so we take her back and forth to rehearsals and encourage all our friends to see anything she is in. We have not paid for driving lessons as she seems to have no appreciation of her own safety. She goes running in dark, deserted areas whilst wearing headphones - despite us telling her how dangerous that is. Even crossing roads, she expects the cars to stop for her. She doesn’t like to follow rules and doesn’t seem to understand that some rules are put in place to protect her and other people.
Every morning, she takes her breakfast back to bed and regularly stays there until after midday. She will then stay up until the early hours of the morning, usually sitting at the family computer.
In addition to this, our daughter is regularly rude and condescending when interacting with me but is verbally (and occasionally physically) cruel to her father and the two of them rarely speak. This makes him both sad and angry and he takes his anger out on me.
Our daughter has always been very controlling but also volatile. We spend our daily lives treading on eggshells so that we don’t make her angry. I learned very early on that punishing our daughter didn’t work. There was no point in putting her on the “naughty step” as she would never understand that she had done anything wrong. I think she did, and still does, consider me a little unhinged and petty. Taking away any privileges just made her angry with me, it did not encourage her to behave properly.
Our daughter could not enjoy school as she could not respond to discipline and saw little benefit in a good education.
There is no point in trying to discuss all of these issues with her as she refuses to talk through the problems. She flounces away and then there is a horrible atmosphere in the house and nothing is ever resolved.
Our daughter willingly admits that she doesn’t like people although she has a few friends she has made through her drama society.
She struggles to engage in regular conversations unless, again, it is theatre related.
The obvious answer is that she should find a full time job and rent a room somewhere before our relationship with her is ruined completely. However, we love our daughter very much and don’t want to make her life completely miserable. In any case, she could not share a house with people as she demands the kitchen to herself and has some OCD issues.
Any suggestions and advice would be gratefully received.

Sounds as if she is autistic, has she ever been assessed?

Tell her she has 6 months to get herself organised with a job and accommodation and stick to it. She's taking advantage and you are letting her.

She will never ever change whilst you facilitate her being rude, lazy and selfish. Loving her doesn’t excuse her behaviour and, I’m sorry to say, it also doesn’t absolve you from being complicit in parenting an adult incapable of finding their own way in the world.

You need to toughen up and she needs to move out.

I think it’s probably a more complex thing than both the above. If she does have autism and to be honest even if she doesn’t she isn’t going to be ‘cured’ by being ordered to get a job and she would in all probability not get a job and then refuse to leave and then what?

It’s a difficult one but I did notice that there’s a lot of parenting and child going on and as a start I’d try to move away from that. Running at night, taking her to and from rehearsals. She needs to find her own way literally and metaphorically.

My advice is the same as you’ve given yourself - it’s time for her to fly the best, otherwise you’ll have a failure to launch on your hands. Tell her that you love her very much but the time has come for her to be independent. Give her 6 months to find herself a job and accommodation and start to reduce the amount you do for her. If she starts kicking off then say that you’ll need her tomove out sooner. Don’t be a hostage to your daughter’s moods and behaviour.

How is she physically cruel to your husband?

I have a daughter with adhd and autism.

she is moving out soon (hopefully!) to begin to be independent. She also does not want to/wouldn’t fit in a shared house.

she is looking to rent a one bedroom flat where she will have her own space.

could something like this be an option for her?

it’s definitely time to be having conversations about her developing her own independent life as an adult.

I would also stop her cooking for you, I know it's the only thing she does but you don't need to be beholden to her, make, your own dinner for 7.30 if she wants to eat at 9 let her carry on.

Sounds like a mixture of an underlying undiagnosed issue like autism and a huge factor of you enabling her.

Many children with autism go on to lead independent lives and it sounds like you’ve buried your head over a lot of things as you’ve been scared to properly parent her.

You are her parents not her friends. Don’t be scared to be seen as the bad guys or for her to throw a strop.

You need to go down the route of getting her privately diagnosed so you can start to help her with her individual needs and just getting her to be more independent in general.

Tell her she’ll be preparing all of her own individual meals so this will entail her meal planning, writing her own shopping list, doing the shopping and cooking. (All with her own money!) Of course sit down and help her with this to start but she should 100% be doing this herself.

Next up is laundry. She should be doing her own laundry herself. If she doesn’t know how to, show her how to use the washing machine correctly and leave her to it. Don’t be temped to just chuck her stuff in with yours.

She needs to find herself a job and stay in it and be paying you a percentage of her pay. Even if you keep it aside in a savings account for her in the future she needs to start getting accustomed to not just having all her wages free to blow on what she wants.

The reality is that not everybody is in their dream job or enjoys it every day but that doesn’t pay the bills. She can pursue her passion in theatre in her spare time.

One day you and your partner will no longer be here and unless you start treating her like an adult she’s going to be screwed when she has no one to look after her.

You need to be sitting down and having tough conversations about adulthood and being financially independent and responsible.

It’s never too later to start.

I'm diagnosed autistic
And find it so offensive that as soon as someone is described as rude , volitile, difficult, abusive.. everyone trots the same line
Is she /he autistic
Just for the record,neither myself or my diagnosed children are any of the above negatives .
It is possible for people to be autistic, and not make everyones life around them a misery

This is really difficult but you’re honestly not helping her by reinforcing to her that her behaviour is acceptable. It feels like kindness in the moment to tiptoe around her but it really isn’t. Shes not learning consequences or tolerance or independence and these are skills she will definitely need to develop if she is to be a happy healthy adult.
Trying to punish her is just treating her again like a child. I would try really hard to just focus on your own behaviour and adopt more appropriate boundaries.

in the real world if someone says ‘I’ll cook dinner’ it’s completely reasonable to say ‘that’s great. Can we eat at 7.30 - if not you just do your own as I can’t eat later than that’.
Stop driving her to her hobbies, stop trying to get people to go watch. You’ll have to take a deep breath when she runs at night but she has to figure these things out.
Shes 25. You have to stop treating her like a child and gradually help her develop confidence in herself by learning that she can cope - she can do things herself. If you’re always hovering it tells her even her parents think she can’t manage

Totally agree with this. Those saying autism - why exactly? How does OP’s description of her fit with the diagnostic criteria?

You admit yourself you never set and enforced boundaries for her so I am afraid this is why she is like this now.

If you want her to contribute to household finances then you have to tell her that you do and what amount you expect as she clearly is never going to offer when your whole history has been that you fund her life.

Time to ask for a contribution and suggest that she also make plans to move out and become independent within a timescale.

It sounds like she’s got away with the behaviour for too long!
Give her a deadline to find a job & a place to live. You can explain it’s for her own benefit so she can learn what the real world is like and learn to be self-supporting (you won’t be around for her to walk over forever!), but I doubt she will listen to you!
Cruel to be kind (and you and your husband will be able to be calm in your own house!)

Well firstly you're allowing this situation op. Sounds harsh but you are. Firstly she needs to pay her way, work or no work even from wages or her benefits. Second I'd see some house rules for her. What you expect from her to continue to live in your home. Do you want her to work, do you want her up out of bed etc. she's currently coasting as your allowing her. Much easier said than done I know but I can't see an end to this if you don't put your foot down 💐

I agree that your daughter needs to be encouraged to live independently. She also needs to learn how to live within society. At the moment she lives like a stroppy teenager. As she has never had to take responsibility for her actions or her decisions this will come as a huge shock to her so I would suggest you start with small changes. It won't be easy and she will probably refuse so I would start with changes that are completely within your control.
It is ridiculous that you allow her to dictate what and when you eat. I would tell her that eating at nine doesn't work for you so that from now on you will prepare your own dinner for 7:30. You will do your own shopping. She can, of course, buy her own food and cook for herself later.
I would also stop giving her lifts. If she wants to go to the theatre she can arrange her own transport. If she can't get there then tough. The world doesn't stop for her. If she can't afford it then she gets a job.
It will probably be horrible in the short term but you have to take action for her sake as well as your own. If she becomes threatening or violent then you have to tell her you will call the police and have her removed (and be willing to follow it up).
You can't go on like this.

Adult child living at home at 25 is not unusual these days. However you have to adopt a new dynamic within the household - you are no longer parent/child but HOUSEMATES

In practical terms that means everyone does their own cooking (facilitate this by making cupboard space and a shelf in the fridge/freezer for her) and laundry. No-one provides lifts - she can use uber/bus/ask friends (or indeed learn to drive!).

You will need to unclench about her attitude to safety, she’s a grown up with a degree and can make her own unwise choices. Our job as parents at this stage is to nod and smile and be present when /if it goes tits up.

Yup.

The increased awareness of ASC/ADHD/MH has backfired in many ways where now any undesirable behaviour is pathologised as if people don't ever have individual personalities.

You can be an unpleasant person who doesn't have a ND/MH disorder.

You can be someone with a ND/MH disorder whose behaviour can be unpleasant due to that

You can be someone with a ND/MH disorder who is also just an unpleasant person.

You can be someone with an ND/MH disorder who isn't also an unpleasant person.

It just sounds like she's spoiled and entitled, and wafts about expecting to be adored.

I agree, OCD tendancies, struggling to talk about anything other than special interests, struggling socially. It's sad that these are the women who get overlooked because they mask up until they don't meet societal expectations. If she'd been a boy school probably would have picked up on it sooner.

There are multiple points of the post that indicate potential autism -
Struggling socially
Unable to converse other than special interest
Struggling with danger/running into roads etc
OCD is often a misdiagnosis for autistic women or comorbidity
The fact that this is not just a teenager who coped well and then decided f it all after uni, the issues have been there since childhood particularly is evidence.

She won't change or try to change to accommodate others until she has to.

Give her written notice to move out, formal notice. I'd give her 3 months to find somewhere to live then change the locks

It seems so harsh, so unkind, but actually, if you can find the strength to go through with this, you might well find that she will , through the experience of living elsewhere, learn to embrace change and growth

Absolutely all this.

Need to enforce boundaries - eg stop driving her anywhere. Stop encouraging your friends to watch her. Stop doing her laundry. I think stop having her cook for you if the timing doesn’t work. Tell her that it’s tIme for her to move out and discuss timing.

Honestly, stop enabling her! Tell her from now on the rules are:

1. if her only contribution to the household are dinners, then dinners to be ready for 8pm.
2. is she would like you to make the effort to take her to/from her rehearsals, what does proposes to do to show her appreciation? Let her suggest something but ideally it should take the same time from her than it takes you to drive her around. She needs to appreciate the effort you are making.
3. rudeness or cruelty will not be tolerated. If she doesn’t stop then unfortunately she will be asked to find her own place to live.
4. she needs to work on a plan: what does she plan on doing for work, where will she live etc. Basically make sure she understand that she needs to think about the future. What does she want to do with her life?!