DD in abusive relationship-never ending

[Conniebygaslight]

Has anyone struggled with their DD in an abusive relationship? No kids involved and she’s only 19 but it’s gone on since she was 14. She’s obsessed with the lowlife and no matter what we do she doesn’t want to get out of it but has no life. Any encouraging stories welcome. Desperate for any hope at all.

I've reported to police and it's logged with their DV team. Nobody has done any assessment and she'd deny anything anyway as she is so brainwashed. I considered a Claires law request but she wouldn't do anything about it if it showed up something and I wouldn't want that to go against her if anything happens. A lot of people think she is choosing this life but she is just made to feel that it's what she wants. It's really complex isn't it.
I have tried to bite my tongue and mainly manage it but not always, especially given it's gone on for nearly 5 years. I cannot tell you how limited her life is and how different he is to her.
I'm so glad that your DD is well and happy and thank you for posting.

I just wanted to say I admire you being so open and honest in such a difficult conversation, it sounds like leaving that relationship took a lot of strength.

I did just want to gently explain something about the phrase “get away with murder,” in case it’s helpful. That expression is usually used to describe someone doing something wrong, often seriously wrong - and not facing any consequences for it. For example, if someone breaks the rules or hurts others and doesn't get punished, people might say “they got away with murder.” So it usually implies wrongdoing on the part of the person who "got away."

I completely understand what you meant, that escaping that situation might have saved your life or your future and it’s clear you were trying to express the emotional weight of it. It’s just that the phrase can sound like you were the one doing something bad, which I know isn’t what you meant at all.

@Conniebygaslight it was the most terrible period of my life and to think of what you’re going through is heartbreaking.
Re the DV risk assessment, even if the “victim” isn’t co operating it can still be carried out based on information from others. And should be carried out (I know this from my professional life) in every case of domestic abuse that’s referred to police or to IDVA services. I’m not sure I can post links but if you haven’t already you could google it.

It’s the DASH risk assessment- sorry I wasn’t able to post a link. Domestic abuse doesn’t always include physical violence or threats - you may have already considered “Stockholm syndrome”.

yes I have, and trauma bond. Thank you for your kind words ☺

If things are really bad, how about paying for her to go abroad. You'd need to box clever of course, so she didn't think you were doing it to split them up. Maybe you could say you thought it would cheer her up. Distance creates perspective. If you could take her somewhere amazing, like California or New Zealand or Japan – somewhere totally different – she might see him in a different light.

@Dappy777 the thing is, whatever we come up as loving, desperate parents cannot compare to the allure and pull of the abuser. Either time or some trauma which opens her eyes at last are usually your only hope.

You must be out of your mind with worrying. She doesn't see how wrong it is that she pays for him, he's using her and she doesn't notice. You said he lives with 3 XL bullies, if one of them kills someone could he go to prison, not sure of the law around this.

We’d pay for her to go anywhere but she wouldn’t leave his side. The moment she does anything without him he blocks her and she’s then desperate and terrified.

It’s exactly this that I worry about, she wouldn’t stand a chance with those dogs.

No!

Women do not need to be medicated when the problem is that they are being abused. Sertraline, like other anti depressants, is a powerful drug, it will not suit everyone, some people can even get worse on it. Suicidal thoughts, etc. If you are not a doctor, psychiatrist, psychologist, pharmacist or otherwise qualified medical professional, do not recommend psychiatric medications to other people. Jesus Christ on a cracker.

I haven't suggested this to her and certainly wont, she has to feel it to recognise it. She's in enough denial as it is. Suggesting anti depressants to help a victim cope with abuse seems alien to me too.

Hi OP, this sounds so hard, I’m sorry.

I’m not in your situation but have been in an abusive marriage previously which I eventually left. Having said that I was an adult when I met my now ex husband and it’s likely to be much harder to get her to open her eyes to the reality of this relationship as she was so young when they met and she is still very young of course. It sounds like he unfortunately has her completely enthralled and she is in complete denial about things right now, to the extent of driving him around to sell drugs etc. As you say, the dynamics of an abusive relationship are more complex than people realise unless you’ve had some personal experience of it all.

I’m not sure there is a lot you can do in reality until she is ready herself to make changes. I would just say to make sure you contact her regularly and keep the door open with you no matter what, so that when she is ready to make changes she knows she has someone in her corner that she can rely on, as abusers often isolate their victims. It sounds like you’re already doing this which is great. If anyone can persuade her to do the Freedom Programme it can really help to open people’s eyes and if nothing else can help to give a reference and a framework for likely behaviours and control techniques within an abusive relationship which means more chance of being able to recognise and label them as abusive on one level of the brain as they are happening.

The other thing that made a difference to me over time was people actively speaking up generally or in private to me when they saw my ex husband treating me poorly in any way publically, or privately to me, and labelling it firmly as domestic abuse and controlling behaviour, but even just saying something along the lines of “this isn’t right, your partner should not be treating you this way, he is being disrespectful, my partner wouldn’t dream of saying/doing that to me, this isn’t normal, it’s not ok” etc all helped. Again your probably already doing this but sometimes people try to avoid conflict and so don’t call out the obvious abnormalities in a situation and it can be really helpful to have an objective view from someone not stuck on the confusing turmoil of an abusive relationship. A sharp eyed colleague at work at one point noticed fingerprints bruises on my arm when I was pregnant, which was from my husband grabbing me roughly in an argument, and although I downplayed it to her face I could tell she didn’t believe my excuses and she specifically told me that domestic abuse often increases in pregnancy, that she was worried about me, and to please talk to her if I need to anytime etc. Like I said, at the time I was in a bit of denial and not ready to leave etc, but all of these comments over time did lodge in my head somewhere made me feel more confident that I wasn’t overreacting etc and that this was domestic abuse etc. They definitely helped give me the confidence to leave eventually. I did early on tell some family and friends about an argument we’d had which turned physical to the point that he hit me, and I think people just didn’t know what to say, didn’t want to upset me etc, but although I tried to downplay it, I was wondering how abnormal this was, whether it was my fault etc etc, whether we could come back from this, and was a bit bamboozled when they didn’t react with obvious shock or upset and said things like “all couples argue” in a reassuring sort of way.

This site can be really supportive OP, but at times quite dangerous with some of the things people say, especially the bandying around of psychiatric and neurodevelopmental diagnoses (can see upthread someone suggested ADHD and needing ADHD medication!) by people who have neither the context or the medical knowledge to do that.

What you're going through must be horrific. I would just say be there and be consistent. Don't enable the relationship, but don't push her away either. And it's good you've reported what you can. Would she consider the Staying Put course if she won't do the Freedom Programme? It's more of a harm reduction approach, I guess, for those who aren't yet ready to leave.

If this guy "saved" her from being bullied in school, I'm guessing he's manipulated her into believing she owes him, she's weak and can't cope without him. It sounds awful, but if her coming to her senses isn't an option, hopefully one day he will do the discard for good and she'll have to learn to stand on her own feet. At that point, perhaps therapy would be helpful so she doesn't get into another, similar relationship.

I can see how difficult it would be. Has she ever spoken about a particular place/country she dreams of visiting? Maybe you could tell her that the best way to win him back is to go away somewhere – then he'll realise how much he misses her (any old nonsense). It might not work, of course, but she sounds like an addict. Like she's under a spell. Parole officers often advise addicts not to return to their old town, if possible, because they quickly slip back into old habits. If they can get away somewhere – a new town, a new country – they see their old life in a completely different light. People and places that loomed so large in their mind shrink to nothing. If you could get her to Australia, for example, and get her swimming in the sea, drinking cocktails, watching the sunrise in the outback, etc, this repulsive little cretin would seem very different. I really think the key is getting her into a completely new environment with new people – ideally where she'd have the opportunity to meet a new man.

I can't imagine how difficult this must be for you. I have a DD roughly the same age & can feel your despair. I know you said she has literally nobody else, no old friends? My children would be far more likely to see peers then spend time with me when they are struggling though I realise this is far more than simply 'struggling'. I guess if there's a positive then she holds down a job with a supportive boss. I'll be thinking of you and hope your DD sees the light soon.

Thank you for your reply and I'm sorry that you endured such abuse. She refuses to engage in any sort of therapy or support and will completely shut down if anyone suggests it. She has recently left her job as her manager was trying to get her to engage in some support.
We never see her with him so we can't call out any behaviour other than how her life is. He wont go anywhere with her or do anything unless his mates are also with them and I mean even to a shop. Her world is incredibly small and she has nobody except him and his mates who are all absolute scum. She absolutely knows for certain that we are there for her and always will be. Its so hard that when he kicks her out and she comes home as we can see how absolutely desperate for him she is and she is really rejecting of us but we will never ever close the door on her and she definitely knows that.
He is a drug dealing Neanderthal who is socially inept and so aggressive (violent too, we believe), she is a capable and beautiful young woman. He controls her by constantly blocking her, kicking her out and cheating. I honestly think nothing will turn her off him other than time and maturity.

Thank you, She has spent an hour with an old friend but she didn't confide in her as she is obviously so ashamed of who she's with. She is extremely secretive about her life and lies an awful lot. Unfortunately she has now left her job where her manager was supportive. She has another job but they wont know anything.

She has no dreams of going or visiting anywhere. No dreams of a career or anything past keeping him. Absolutely nothing. She has said that she doesn't want a normal life if it's without him or a normal relationship. I asked her if she cared about herself at all and she said no.

I'm sorry to hear she's changed jobs. I'm trying to imagine what I'd do in your situation as like you, I'd want to do anything to protect my child - legal or not!

I was just coming on to say the same

I'm so sorry OP, it really does sound awful. From my outsider perspective (which can be useful, as outsiders often see things differently), it sounds more like mental illness than a relationship. That may be a good thing, in a way, because at least you can treat a mental illness. It isn't simply a young girl in love. It's infatuation/obsession/addiction. You need to find some way of breaking that before she does something silly like get pregnant or buy a flat with him. The only things I can think of are:

• Getting her away to a new environment/new country/new city
• Getting her into therapy
• Getting her on medication

I don't think medication is as crazy at it sounds. Years ago I was put on Paxil/Seroxat. I hated the stuff, and was glad to come off it. But, at the time, it helped me a lot. I slept constantly and deeply (after years of insomnia) and, after a spell of brighter mood, developed a kind of numbness/indifference. My sex drive also dropped through the floor. Obviously for most people numbness, indifference, constant sleeping and a loss of sex drive would be awful. But for your daughter it would be ideal. I'm not sure they even prescribe it today. Also, it would be tough to explain things to a modern GP, who has to do everything by the book. But if you could somehow find a GP who was intelligent and broad-minded, he/she might get what you mean. You know – form a sort of off the record, unspoken agreement. An anti-depressant that numbed her and reduced her sex drive would be perfect. She'd no longer be blinded by her emotions and sexual desire. Atm they are clouding her judgement.

A sharp eyed colleague at work at one point noticed fingerprints bruises on my arm when I was pregnant, which was from my husband grabbing me roughly in an argument, and although I downplayed it to her face I could tell she didn’t believe my excuses and she specifically told me that domestic abuse often increases in pregnancy, that she was worried about me, and to please talk to her if I need to anytime etc.

Its good that your DD continues to work. She still has two safe spaces, two normal life contexts in which to contrast her abusive relationship experience even if this unconscious, two avenues of communication, two avenues of support, two avenues for release, two avenues for potential escape and two chunks of her life that he hasnt (yet) isolated.

Two people I know who finally left abusive relationships did it by building a confidence at work with another woman - someone who had never met the abuser and only commented independently on the objective generic actions and behaviour of abuse and coercive control (which a lot of people dont understand the details and nuance of). Maybe there isnt the tug of war feeling for the victim in these colleague relationships - they dont feel the binary dictomy of 'come home' vs 'stay with him' - basically love and judgment pulling them in both directions - and a win lose situation for either him or the family with her as the prize.

Both the women I knew left to live alone one with 5 children one with none - and it was done with a slow chipping away of seeing the light and then a slow acceptance of they need rather than the want to leave and a slow putting together of a safe exit plan (saving small amounts of money etc). There are 3 threads on here over the years - one about one woman who got small amounts of cash back on every shop, who bought all the larger sizes for her childrens school uniform, as well as extra washing powder, dishwasher tabs etc stored at a friends house so she had a financial cushion - another just the other day who has taken 7 long months to secretly find a HA prop for her DC and arrange donated furniture and will disappear once all in place - and the accounts from littleredtoothbrush who finally escaped with meticulous secret planning

Maybe this is something you could subtly engineer with her boss if there was someone new at work she slowly clicked with? Or just continue to hope that her workplace will one day present an opportunity when the stars align.

Maybe she senses your (100% justified) handwringing, desperation, judgment of him (and maybe her) from you and her family and for her this closes off communication and she is automatically subconsciously or consciously into defence mode in your company. I dont know if switching demeanor in her company would (over time) shift the emotional dynamic between you all - maybe he and her current life choices are never brought up (she already knows your views) - that the emotion when she visits is just fun and joy and ordinary life?

I say this very gently but I think your demeanor on this thread can come across as a bit blunt and harsh (I understand your emotional depletion and desperation) but if there is any of this tone sensed by your DD it would not be helping her - even if you are not speaking just demeanor. Maybe subconsciously she feels you dont 'see her' just see her always in the context of this relationship which is to you is negative and needing rescuing. This may undermine her sense of self and automony (which is already eroded by her abuser but she cant see this yet).

I have sensed a destraught nearly victim blaming despair in your words describing your daughter - which is totally undertsandable with what you have been through over the last 5 years with effectively your young teen child - she was only 14 and I doubt her emotional age and therefore capacity has grown since then - but I dont think this demeanor is helpful or will shift her perspective - more likely to entrench it.

There are chinks of light for your DD - she still comes to you - she is still working and has the potential for a trusting or influential friendship with a colleague - can you hang on to this hope and maybe try shift your mindset for your DD and intentionally aim for 'light' positive 'normal' fun interactions with your DD as a unique and celebrated self rather than the (complict?) victim in a horror story (which of course she is for outsiders looking in but she cant see this yet).

You mentioned the Drama Triangle but I wonder if you have read about the Empowerment Triangle which shifts the roles of persecutor, victim and resuer in unproductive communication dynamics to challenger, creator and coach and fosters growth and postive communications. This might be helpful for you to maybe step aside from the reactive communication you have with your DD and into a more intentional responsive one?

I also want to comment on the shouting down of suggestions of neurodiversity and depression and their managment by PP on this thread which concerns me.

There is lots of literature that evidences the greater vulnerability of neurodiverse women to abuse. The additional fact that your DD was bullied at school prior might also suggest something. Girls are hugely underdiagnosed - and without support (lifetsyle and / or medication) its no surprise their struggles with the NT world lead to depression (as would abuse on top to either any NT or ND woman). Although the abusive relationship is front and centre it wouldnt do any harm researching and reflecting whether she had any undiagnosed ND traits which, if so, might provide another avenue of how you could shift how you all communicate with her to connect more constructively.

Are you getting any professional emotional support for you and / or do you have capacity to build in additional self care to sustain yourself for the next few years whilst you watch and wait through this marathon? Can you allow yourself to hope/believe that this will have been resolved by the time she is 25 rather than today, tomorrow next week? Or is that too painful? Prepare for the worst whilst hoping for the best. If you could accept the likely long game might be another way to shift your energy.

Do you have access to any direction from any DA services who can help you navigate and sustain this connection and relationship with your child as we know in these situations the normal standard rules of life and communication just dont apply and may even be detrimental (to all of you).

Lastly after you have cared for yourself are you able to intentionally nourish and enjoy your marriage, your other DCs and your friendships without guilt? These can all take a back seat and be inadvertently blighted when they are critical for not just sustaining you day to day but bringing your some purpose, joy and relief in life.

I dont know if the core AA approach "detach with love" would help - the idea is that you recognise that you can't control or influence their choices and how you are (understandably) behaving - emotional, reactive, desparate, trying to fix - may inadvertently be enabling to the abusive relationship by bring too much of the wrong energy - fraught / intrusive - which closes her emotional space down from the other side in the tug of war. If you 'drop the rope' (deciding ahead on your own playbook of how you respond (not react) to incidents / communications with her and then get on in contructively building out your own life positively - she maybe has more emotional space to find herself, reflect and work things out for herself rather than rejecting every word that comes from your mouth.

I see that your DD has left her job but it is still positive that she has another (clearly abuser needs her money). Maybe the boss stepping in was too intrusive - maybe she knows you know the boss or that it was a hierachial power imbalance she was spooked by (or her abuser got wind off) - it is good she has spoke with a friend - she doent need to speak about her relationship - she just needs to build trust slowly over time with others.

I was reluctant to do a Clare's law as she wouldn't do anything whatever she might learn from it and I'm afraid her reluctance wouldn't put her in a good light if anything does happen. I.E the police could say 'You were aware but didn't act'