What is a realistic aim?

[Lightuptheroom]

My step son is 30 this year. Due to mental health difficulties (mainly social anxiety) he hasn't worked for 8 years. He is medicated with Mirazapine but it's not regularly reviewed (he states that he doesn't sleep at night but doesn't return to the gp) He has 'used up' all the counselling etc the NHS can offer and is in the 'limited capacity for work or work related activity' for universal credit, meaning that nobody expects him to even try to look for work.
This means that he's still living at home. Nothing improves things and we worry how he's going to function going forward, he can't afford to rent his own place. He sleeps all day, doesn't wash, doesn't do anything in the house, yet nobody follows anything up. Is this how life is going to be? His dad doesn't know any other information and professionals won't discuss it with us. It's causing problems as when he wants to, he goes out with his mates playing Dungeons and Dragons until 1am in the morning. We have no idea what to do.

You need to have a really frank discussion with your DH.
How does SS have money to go out everyday?!
This is an intolerable situation for you.

@Lightuptheroom I think it's time for you to reconsider what you want. You married in 2018, but did you know then what you were walking into? Do you really want to be part of this intolerable set-up for the rest of your life?

I don't know how old you are, but you work full time so I imagine could support yourself to start again. Are you close to your own adult DS, aside from the physical distance between you? Do you have friends who would support you in a fresh start?

I'm all for marriage and family life, but in your circumstances I would be questioning my commitment to my commitment.

No easy answers.

What is going to happen in 20/30/40 years? PIL have a daughter who never left home. In her 30s they seemed super caring. Now PIL are old and ill they have a middle aged child who has mental health issues that are diagnosed but not treated, who is very difficult and manipulative to be around.

SIL has effectively kept GC away from PIL and I worry about elder abuse. DH has his head in the sand and I have got to the point I will protect DC and not be involved (some hideous behavior from SIL that is just unnecessary, have done everything to be kind around OCD but not taking malicious stirring in response).

@Lentilweaver he has money as he receives an enhanced rate of universal credit as they have assessed that he is in the limited capacity for work or work related activity group, which gives an extra something like £400 a month. The assessment was last done over 2 years ago over the phone, I don't know what triggers any sort of reassessment. He doesn't qualify for the housing element as he still lives with a parent. His dad won't charge him anything other than a minimal rent which covers everything (food, WiFi, all other bills associated with living somewhere) so he effectively has .more disposable income than a person on minimum wage (which I personally think contributes to not looking for worm as there is no need to)
The other comment about deciding what I want, that's a tricky one as never envisaged it still being like this, obviously his friends have pretty much moved on from living with their families, apart from one friend who lives in an annex of his family home.

I have adult DC living with me thanks to London rents, one in education and one working first job. I don't charge rent as I can afford not to. But they do their own laundry, cook and clean.

Obviously this is not the same situation as your SS.
But I still firmly believe even the mentally ill can do basic chores or walk a dog. Walking the dog would be so good for him. Especially as your DH is disabled.

OP, you have a DH problem as much as DSS problem.
He needs to be charged a realistic rent.
This can be saved into an account for him for however long.
He can then be set up in a flat on his own. His priority needs to be getting his life on track not going out with his mates.

We did this with one of our DC (had been depressed, almost certainly autistic but refuses diagnosis) who was working very limited hours, staying up late online and wasting her life. She volunteered recently while she had hated us doing this, it had been a good thing and really helped her. The independence that we forced on her (we were close by, we didn't chuck her out miles away) has really transformed her life.

@StMarie4me Happy to be corrected, but I don’t think he’s severely depressed if he’s able to go out regularly and socialize with his friends. I’m no expert, but my understanding is that this would be too much for someone suffering from severe depression, wouldn’t it?

What an excellent post, even if some may find the truth of it hard to accept.

Excellent post by @SilverBowl indeed and some lived experience from @MehsMum though I am not sure if setting the SS in another flat is possible.

It's not possible to set him up in a flat or even a shared house, we don't have the means to provide a deposit and wouldn't qualify as guarantors. There's also the inevitable problem that any landlord wouldn't accept the level of mess he lives in (currently contained in his bedroom)

@SilverBowl thank you. What you've said summarises what I've tried to do. But, he won't apply for a job (he worked in Sainsburys before his mum died so has experience) He just seems to have accepted that he 'can't work' and that's it. His work coach doesn't send him on any courses etc, which I felt would at least give him a structure to apply for entry level admin for example. He did A levels and was 2 years into a degree, I've tried to help him apply for apprenticeships etc but he takes the details and then doesn't fill in the forms. I found different entry level jobs and he didn't apply for them, one excuse he used was that he couldn't get on a bus (something he manages fine when doing what he wants) No grandparents, his dad and mum were 'late' having children and both sets of grandparents have died. His older brother emigrated to the States so there's no input from there either.
Its become extremely manipulative.

@Lightuptheroom Approx. how old is your DH? If he’s an older Dad, it makes it even more imperative that your DSS sorts himself out. I’m assuming that you moved into your DH’s house when you got married- you need to have plans to ensure that you won’t be homeless if your DH dies first.

Sorry to bring up this subject, but it has to be considered.

@BruFord he's past retirement age. No, I didn't move into his house. We rent. I won't be homeless, but dss could be. DH is very aware of this, but doesn't seem to be able to enforce anything. Unfortunately the manipulation is very emotional so to enforce anything DH has to be able to push through the verbal that comes from dss that he 'might' try to harm himself.

He should be paying you rent which you then save for him to have a deposit and the first six months rent. That's pretty much what we did.

You make it clear to him that he will be moving out and therefore needs to get some sort of job. If he doesn't, that's on him. We were fortunate that our DD was working, but she was doing the minimum she could get away with. Having to pay her bills woke her up very sharply. I told her that she could claim UC but she took on extra hours instead. She now has two part time jobs, one paying > minimum wage. She has become much more reliable all round - when I stop and consider how much she has changed in the past few years, I become aware of what a transformation it has been. But she needed that boot up the bum. I think it's Temple Grandin, who is autistic and writes about autism, who calls it the loving push.

It was very tough to do it with someone we knew was vulnerable, but I am so glad we did.

I’m relieved that your situation is secure.

From what you’ve said, I suspect that there’s a fair amount of can’t-be-bothered-ness going on here. Your DSS may have some MH problems, but he could probably do a lot more for himself if his Dad wasn’t propping him up.

As his SM, you’re in an impossible position unless his Dad decides to change the situation. I think it would be reasonable to ask your DH to insist that his son washes regularly, not just when he’s going out (funny how he can suddenly shower when he’s socializing!) and do some chores. Beyond that, you’re stuck. 💐

I totally agree. On the good days when he is chatty and able to go out with mates can he do anything to help in the home too or does he refuse?

This post is very helpful … someone with actual experience and still saying routine, structure and boundaries are everything even to the most poorly.
i wonder what would happen @Lightuptheroom if you found a way to disconnect all internet services when he’s feeling most disconnected and staying in hid room? He can read/ rest but not game or watch anything. This boredom could push him to come out of his room and engage?
it sounds similar to something very common in Japan too it’s called Failure to Launch FTL..

Unfortunately we can't disconnect WiFi as I'm working from home. I've asked DH to switch it off at night as dss has very much swapped his nights and days around, but he won't.
Failure to launch had been mentioned by the mental health team a few years ago, dss then decided to 'hurt' himself with a blunt craft knife and they all said that he wasn't engaging with their service (which apparently because he's an adult and not a risk to other people, they can do)
DH and I have had another conversation this afternoon and that there needs to be expectations that dss will do basic household chores. I have a feeling it will go round in a circle again where he does it a few times and then decides he can't anymore as DH does tend to respond like it's unnecessary nagging. As I've pointed out, the government can and do withdraw support suddenly so he needs to be able to support himself somehow.

So, your DH won't or doesn't:
Stay on his case to make sure he does chores
Charge him anything approaching a market rate for the accommodation being provided (which could be saved on his behalf to go towards a place of his own - see above)
Turn off the internet at night.

Your DH is enabling your DSS to paint himself into a corner. The longer he takes to find a job, the harder it becomes for him to find one (both in terms of employers going '?? What has he been doing with his life' and your DSS feeling he has the capacity to get off his bum). The longer he takes in building up some life skills, the harder he will find it to cut the apron strings.

The Japanese phenomenon: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hikikomori

From this it reads like it's your DH that's the problem, also your DSS but your DH is massively enabling him. I do wonder how much of this is related to the passing of your DSS' bio mum. Also, you could change the WiFi password then login to the router and change the settings so he can't discover it. Agreed that folk with MH issues can be very manipulative and unaware of it.

The longer he takes in building up some life skills, the harder he will find it to cut the apron strings.

@MehsMum is right. The reality is that unless your DSS starts taking control of his life, he's likely to be living in an HMO in 20 years. He won't be inheriting a property, and his brother lives abroad, so where will he go when you and your DH are no longer around to provide him with a home?

It's good that you and your DH have discussed chores today, but you do need to be blunt with your DH that his son faces a difficult long-term future if he doesn't sort himself out.

He needs to be put in a sink or swim situation. Sorry. I struggle massively with anxiety and have been prescribed the same medication and I work FT + am a single parent + help family financially.

It is what it is. I’m not the only person I’ve know that has had to push through when options ran out, by the way - I’ve seen it happen with close friends too. Some of them still in treatment to various degrees but life has moved forward.

Unfortunately the UK does seem to have a coddling approach to situations that are solvable. Like a PP said anxiety is worked on through exposure. Him holed up in his bedroom and only coming out when it suits him isn’t exposure.

This would massively impact my ability to stay in that relationship though so honestly, power to you for trying. It’s a very frustrating and difficult situation.

@SanDiegoZoo thank you for your perspective. It feels like nobody wants to 'push the button' so to speak, because of what 'might' happen. I find when I'm very matter of fact with him he does ok, then he'll send a million messages to his dad and his friends about how unreasonable I've been, how 'bad' his anxiety is etc and everything collapses again. It's extremely manipulative and works because we have no information about the professionals he's seen, what they've suggested to him, nothing.
Today, he's run out of money, so he messaged his dad that he 'needs' a lift to his friends house.. now, my answer was that no money, no visit, but his dad had already said yes to the lift. So, I'm totally undermined by DH need to be Mr Nice Guy and not to 'rock the boat'. I fully understand its very scary when a young person is willing to make threats to get what they want, but we really can't continue like this.

Honestly, every update of yours makes him sound worse and worse, and you have my sympathy. I am glad some people with experience are now posting as the initial posts were all about how you should just suck it up and not think about the future.

Ultimately your DH is not willing to draw boundaries, so I am not sure what you can do. You are stuck between a rock and a hard place. But I see you have had a convo about basic household chores. At least, begin with that.

I absolutely do not believe that a 30-year-old who goes out daily cannot do laundry, or cook a meal, or push a Hoover around. It's just unbelievable that anyone thinks this should be encouraged. What will he do when you are gone?