I desperately need advice, I am at my wits end

[OhMyChristMickk]

DD is 20, 21 in a few weeks.

Very likely Autistic but failed by the NHS in this when she was a child. I do think this is relevant. We were told repeatedly she didn’t meet the criteria for a diagnosis. I have ADHD and there is a lot of autism/adhd in my family (all diagnosed in the last few years).

She has never really launched as an adult.

A very brief and hopefully not too outing timeline of her recent years - failed first year of A levels and then with a lot of my help got an apprenticeship (I was driving her to and from- 3 hours driving a day) She was let go from this after 6 weeks because she just simply didn’t do any work. College then agreed to have her back for a Btech course which to her credit she completed.

So she left college almost a year ago and since then has had several part time bar jobs and been sacked from every one. The most recent one has withheld her wages saying that she owes it for stock discrepancies. (Illegally, and I am fighting this for her) The thing is she is a terrible employee. She calls in sick, is late, is rude to customers and will just refuse to do things.

I have accompanied her to the job centre, and got her into an employment scheme for adults with additional needs. But as she is an adult they quite rightly don’t communicate with me, and she tells me nothing. Or outright lies. So I don’t know what’s going on with that.

She seems to actually despise us. She spends most of her time at her boyfriends house. Which is a huge issue as she has a pet that she brought home early last year as a birthday present to herself despite us saying no. We have no option really but to care for the pet. Re homing is not an option, he is loved and cared for and it’s not his fault. But he is a handful, and adds a huge deal of stress. She’s basically abandoned him.

Recently we started receiving debt letters. I opened them. I found out she owed £400 to Klarna for various clothes and shoes purchases going back to early last year, she had set up all these credit agreements and not made a single payment. When I spoke to her she said oh I didn’t think Klarna was that serious, like it’s just an app. The debt collectors were threatening bailiffs so I just paid it off (onto my credit card!) and told her she’d be paying me back as soon as she got paid. Over the next hour or so she dripfed that she also owed nearly £2k on a credit card and overdraft. I helped her contact StepChange. Made it very clear that I needed her to pay me that £400 as I had gone into debt myself for it.

Next pay day (last week) she only got paid half and after initially lying to us for a week about it being a mix up eventually confessed yesterday that she’d been sacked and wages withheld.

I told her she would have to give me what she had been paid and just go without any money for the month. And then we find out that she’s already spent £200 of it on Pokémon cards and the pub. She has given me £150. She now has no money coming in until either universal credit or new job pans out.

Talking to her goes round in circles. She is contrite (sometimes) and makes promises and then nothing changes.

She has had an interview today for a part time job. But I don’t see what will be different this time. She just doesn’t seem to have any adulting skills at all, and I don’t know what else to do. We have tried helping, we have tried discipline, we have tried begging and pleading.

She has made it very clear that she thinks we should fund her. And that she’s happy for us to be in debt to help her out. And she lies and lies and lies.

My own parents chucked me out at 15 and again at 18 and I had a terrible time of it so I have always been adamant I would never kick her out. But she’s nearly fucking 21! When does it end? What the fuck do we do? She would have nowhere to go and no way of supporting herself. How can I make her into a functioning adult?

This is probably really outing now if anyone knows us in rl but I am desperate for help here.

I’ve just been in her room to speak to her.

We've said tomorrow morning she contacts Step Change, the job centre and the GP to start the assessment process (she can do Right To Choose and it takes months not years, I had already prepped this but I can’t do more without her actioning it).

She had an interview today for a part time job that is actually ideal for her. If she gets that I have suggested she just does that and we won’t push her to get a full time job just yet. I’ve also suggested she hand her wages over and we deduct her rent and what she owes then give her the rest weekly as an allowance. That went down like a cup of cold sick and I can’t force it but I did suggest it might be a condition of her living here.

And I’ve told her she needs to live here if she lives here. And not at the boyfriends. She needs to contribute to the household by looking after her pet and doing washing up and laundry (hers at least!!). Currently she leaves her laundry in the machine and the kitchen in a state and fucks off for days.

We fucked up with the pet ultimatum a few months ago, we said we’d have to rehome him if she didn’t step up and she said yes do that then. But we love him, and DH cried (not in front of her). We can’t do it. So that’s on us.

I really appreciate all the responses, it’s helped me formulate my thoughts this afternoon.

I think you are doing well, and she is lucky to have you.
It's hard, I imagine. Don't feel guilty about treating yourself and DH.

Have you implemented legal and financial separation from her? That will protect your credit rating even when you live at the same address.

I would rehome the pet. You have enough to deal with.

Can you apply for legal guardianship? My eldest is autistic and many parents I meet of adult children have done this.

Does she understand she could apply for PIP? She does not need a diagnosis. Citizens Advice can help with this. That would allow to have money of her own.

Are you able to get support in your area from and charities that help unpaid carers?

Are there any work outreach opportunities locally? I know 2 near me. One on a farm and one in a garden. They are about supporting people who cannot hold down jobs but benefit from a routine and interaction.

Can you afford to have her assessed at the Lorna Wing Centre?

I would try to have 10 year plan to help her launch. She is obviously delayed. She needs to have input into it.

Thinking about it, claiming PIP could backfire as she then won't have a reason to work as with UC it's not a bad income for a young person living with family.

No laundry services.. Leaves it in the machine? Dump it in a basket in her room. WiFi is chore depending. I hope she walks her own ddog.... No meals. No treats either...

Either take full respond for the pet (ie it belongs to you and not her) or rehome

Ensure her debt is not linked to yours

Hold her to ultimatums so she doesn’t think she can get away with this type of behaviour indefinitely

Any further job losses due to her own behaviour then she leaves the home

ND or not she needs to learn to be an adult and that comes with consequences. And I am ND myself before anyone has a go

It is tough, she needs support, therapy at the least, and debt councelling.

We have no option really but to care for the pet. Re homing is not an option

It is, with respect, the only option. Do it asap

I'm not a parent but it does strike me that if she is ND that her maturity might not be at the level you might expect of a 21 year old.

I'm not suggesting pandering to everything, her debts need to be dealt with and I think you're doing the right thing there but she might need more help to get to grips with adult life.

Yes being sacked from jobs is not great, but at least the willingness to apply is there and she has her BTEC.

I honestly don't think all is lost. I was a nightmare at 21 and I have no ND, and i turned out OK. Lots of 21 year old are not adult enough to deal with problems.

Stop saving her she needs to see the natural consequences of her decisions

Gosh that sounds tough op. Big yes to firm boundaries, ensuring she pays her way, and sticking to what you said if she doesn’t follow through. You can only help a grown adult so much, and ND or no ND she has to function in the world at some point - you won’t be around for ever.

The thing is, you didn't push for an autism assessment. I'm not blaming you because my 22 year old DS has only just been diagnosed. His referral was rejected when he was younger too. Now she's an adult she'll have to be willing to do this but perhaps you could mention that she could then apply for PIP. You will have to do this for her though and you will have to seek advice on how to complete the form.

My DS lives with his dad and doesn't buy anything but I attended the assessment with him and I have to say that the assessor looked horrified that his dad had cut off all money and was only providing basic food. I felt that she thought we'd let him down and I've always felt this too but his father has prevented me from helping.

You know that you can't take the advice of people saying that she's an adult blah blah. I can tell you as an autistic 52 year old that I was utterly clueless at that age. I'd have been absolutely terrified if my parents had threatened to throw me out because I wouldn't have known what to do. I imagine I'd have just sat in the front garden sobbing. I was a child until I was about 35.

I don't think bailiffs can take you things and they can't force their way in. If you pay of your DD's debts she'll just spend more.

Maybe she has asd , maybe she doesn’t.
It does sound like you have tried so hard to support and help her that you have not achieved the bit about consequences and making her take responsibility.
Maybe you have given her far too much leeway based on the possible asd diagnosis and really need to grab all the good advice you are getting on here and DO IT. Otherwise at some point you cannot blame her for failing to launch, you will need to look long and hard at your role in it. (Said harshly, I realise. Everything you have done has come from a place of intense love and wanting to help).
Good luck.

I agree you need to lower your expectations. I would either help her find some voluntary or part-time work - small steps. I think you are thinking too big. Looking at her whole life future prospects may be shutting her down completely and causing her stress.

In a couple of years of making small incremental steps I would then support her to live independently - contributing to her rent if needed. If this is not an option then push for funding for additional support.

FGS animals are sentient beings with their own emotions they're not bloody disposable garden plants . OP has said he is staying and quite right too , Why should his life be ruined / uprooted through no fault of his own . Do you know how many pets are languishing in full to bursting rescue centres .
Really annoys me with so many people treating animals as something to be chucked out to teach someone s lesson or they are in the way now .

OP os pet owner by default. That's on her.
She should have rehomed it when she originally suggested it and then her and her DH could have focused on helping DS sort herself out.

But her opening post was disingenuous since some time ago she assumed responsibility for the pet.

TBF the consequence of her actions shouldn’t be that the pet (he’s a cat) is rehomed. It should be that she steps up to look after him.

The time to rehome him would have been when he was a kitten and we spent all our time and energy stopping him from being eaten by the two dogs or mauled by the grumpy elderly cat we already have. He’s made it to adulthood and found his place in the family but I’ve made it clear to her that (much like her) we won’t chuck him out. He is still her responsibility and she has to actually be here to look after him.

She does love him. But she lost interest in him very quickly and left him for days on end. And we had to sort out his jabs and castration as she lied to us about doing it all.

I’m not saying the following to justify her behaviour at all. I’m aware of how much damage I did to people.

I was always a bright, slightly odd and scatty, but no problem to anyone child. I fell off the rails spectacularly in puberty. I physically couldn’t get myself organised, lost everything, was impulsive, lied a lot, spent money I didn’t have, treated boyfriends like crap and fought my parents excessively. I failed nearly all of my GCSEs, despite being one of the highest achievers at the end of primary. Lurching from one disaster into another went on into my 20s.

It was only when my boyfriend who was training to be a mental health nurse said he thought I was neurodiverse the penny dropped. I’m diagnosed ADHD and dyspraxic. I’ve never been formally assessed but it wouldn’t surprise me if I met criteria for ASD as well.

A combination of ADHD medication, antidepressants and primarily maturity (it happens a lot later in ADHD girls) made all the difference. I did A levels, then a degree, then a masters. I’m now in a professional job with a family. I still have executive functioning issues but life is manageable with good support and keeping my world small.

Im forever grateful my parents didn’t cut me off despite being awful to them. Im sure they were told over and over they were soft and should chuck me out. I think their support was one of the main thing that turned it around for me when my brain did finally settle.

If you think she has ADHD I would be prioritising assessment for that. I genuinely don’t think anyone chooses to live a life like your daughter - I was in free fall and utterly miserable underneath the fragile life I was living.

I mean this very politely, but I just wanted to highlight generally that there are people who will never be able to learn the consequences of their actions (or of those of others). I don't of course know if your daughter is one of these people, OP, but they do exist.

She isn't actually capable of looking after herself let alone a cat so if you've decided to keep him then you need to stop using it as a stick to beat her with.

Next time she brings a pet home, rehome it straight away.

I personally think kicking kids out is a bad idea, especially girls, but if her behaviour starts impacting your finances (ie the bailiffs can take your stuff) then you’d need to do something about it. Creating a pit for yourself will help no one, including her.

There’s a chance she has something but there’s also a chance she doesn’t. And even if she does she still needs help and to be held accountable in order to mature - being a flaky employee when young is relatively normal, being rude and not looking after the pet she doubled down on having can’t just be accepted.

I would try to insist on reassessment (I have the same issue with my DD not wanting it, but she’s not as difficult) but as long as she doesn’t want, she’ll need to be held accountable more. There’s also a chance she latches on to this hypothetical diagnosis as an excuse to act the way she does.

And ultimately - any chance drugs are involved? Is she hanging out at the pub often?

I would also say that you seem to be tolerating lots of bad behaviour on the basis of ‘she might have an asd diagnosis’
Lying, thinking you are unreasonable to want rent etc just sounds like bad behaviour to me. It doesn’t sound like asd.
Feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

Have you implemented legal and financial separation from her? That will protect your credit rating even when you live at the same address.

That is really important.

At her age I was a nightmare, ran up debt and struggled to hold down a job but I had no one to bail me out so I had to handle the consequences. She may be autistic but she may not be and just finding her place in the world. It must be extremely frustrating and difficult for you though and I wouldn't like the lying above everything else as you're clearly trying to help her the best you can x

I see an adult who desperately needs consequences.
I was never as severely behaved as your daughter, @OhMyChristMickk, but until I received the consequences for a few of my reckless actions, I didn’t learn a darn thing.
As tough as it might be,
Let her touch that hot stove.
Let her talk sass to that big girl.
Let her f—k around and find out.
Learning the hard way is still learning.
My mum taught me that.

20 is still young. Especially If she's ND. Managing money is obviously an issue. But don't abandon her or kick her out.
She needs to pay her debts and either work or claim the relevent benefits. Don't bail her out financially but continue to give her a roof over her head and as much guidance as she'll accept.
Would she consider counselling? I hope things improve for her and you x