Struggling a bit with DS's manipulative GF

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Need some advice please - realise it's not my place (or intention) to interfere in their relationship at all, but more on how to deal with my own misgivings and concern, as DS's GF keeps manipulating situations so that she has her way and DS right where she wants him.

They got together in February- DS is 20, GF 17. She's clever, polite, studious, mature in many ways and very sensible. I welcomed her with open arms and was happy for her to stay over at ours whenever they liked. DS wasn't allowed to sleep over at GF's house, however he was welcomed kindly by her family and given their approval, as DS was friendly with GF's DF through sporting activities. They were seemingly ok with her staying over at ours though.

In June, DS was going abroad for a week with friends on a holiday booked prior to them getting together. As the holiday approached, DS was suddenly allowed to stay over at GF's, then 2 weeks before his holiday he announced that GF wanted him to move in (to her parent's house) with her.

This all seemed a bit too soon and came as a shock tbh, given that he hadn't even been allowed to sleep over until 2 weeks prior.

Anyway, he moved in, but I could never understand why the sudden 180 by the parents. Well it transpires recently that she'd threatened her parents to move out and into OUR house with DS if they didn't relent and let DS stay over and move in before his lads holiday. However, that offer was never on the table (for her to move in with us) she'd evidently made that up in order to get her parents to cave, as they understandably don't want her to move out during her A levels.

I have just stood back and watched this all unfold, but am pretty pissed off tbh. DS leaving hit me hard in terms of empty-nest syndrome and I'm of course happy that he's ready to fly, but I'm not happy about the circumstances of him leaving if that makes sense? It seemed as though it wasn't really his own decision, and he keeps making noises about how he almost immediately regretted it and wants to come back one day. (I haven't said no).

Additionally DS's GF's parents are obviously none the wiser that we've all been played.
GF's DM had been acting quite off and passive aggressive with DS, evidently feeling slightly resentful at being strong-armed into a decision she didn't really want to make either. But nobody has ever said "no" to the GF, from what I can gather, so she's used to getting her own way.

DS is super laid back and doesn't seem overly concerned (that he's mentioned), but there's a history of emotional abuse from his F so he does have a tendency to go along with things for a quiet life. This is one of several tricks that have been pulled by DS's GF over the last few months. I'm concerned that DS is being blind to the coercion and in all honesty I'm also feeling like a pawn in someone's daft game, because I had never said she could move in. (I was never asked).

I'd asked DS to pop in and feed the dog this evening after work as I'd been held up (he passes anyway on his way back to hers). But then rather than working as she had planned, his GF then wanted to drive 20 mins to our house (under the guise of "missing the dog"...) But I just feel as though she won't let him out of her sight, or is mistrustful of him. He's given her absolutely no reason to feel this way, he's a really good lad and reassures her all the time, she just seems overly insecure and clingy. I'm seeing so many red flags here though and I know I can't interfere at all as it's his life at 20.

I suppose my dilemma is that I feel quite strongly that I don't really want to be in her company at all right now, mostly because I'm pissed off and peri, and really just want to be kind, but might fail.
I am unsure how to say to DS "I dont feel comfortable around GF right now" without upsetting him or causing an issue between them and being "that person". I know he values my opinion and I don't want to sway him in any way.

Am I overreacting? Should I just suck it up, ignore the fact we've all been played and play happy families? I'm quite honestly fuming and don't see that subsiding in the near future. If I sound as though I'm being unreasonable, please say so, I'm unsure whether the peri hormones are clouding my judgement 😵‍💫

And also get married and legally have sex…

Hang on… where are you getting the info from? Your son I’m guessing. Who is four years older than his teenage girlfriend?
so your son moves out but tells you his girlfriend lied and twisted her parents to make it happen and has said he wants to come home but can’t?
he also says that he can’t feed your dog without his girlfriend coming with him?

One of two things is happening here.

1. Your son does not want to tell you that he wanted to move out and is blaming his girlfriend as he is too scared to upset you.
2. your son is telling you that his girlfriend is controlling and manipulating him and is by default asking you to help him.

stop blaming the girlfriend and focus on either a) improving the honesty between your son and yourself or b) making it crystal clear to your son that her behaviour is not heathy and your home is a safe place to come back to … and as his mother it is your objective assessment that he is in a coercive relationship and should leave.

ultimately your son is the adult in this relationship and she is still a child the power dynamic is heavily swayed in his favour, I’d take more caution with assuming she is the one calling the shots.

Maybe point out to him that there is nothing grown up about moving in with your 17 year old gf's parents under these circumstances. It's a step away from independence rather than towards it.

Ps. I do also find the age gap gross. Like pp said, a lot changes in those key years.

No comment…
@minnieot I’m not sure what your goal was when you commented, how is it helping OP or even contributing to the discussion?

'After I'd asked DS, he then asked GF. Her response to why the sudden change of heart was "they didn't want me to move out".'

But that doesn't mean she said she would move in with you?

Yes, she could have said to them ‘If you don’t let him move in, we’ll find our own place.’

Would you say a 24-25 year old is too old for you?

She's 17 well past the legal age to have sex do you understand the law?

If you have a daughter she may at 17 shag a 30 year old if she wanted to and there's nothing you can do about it. When I was 16 my dad rang the police over a photo of my 18 year olds boyfriends genitals at the time. There was nothing they could do about it because I was 16 and I consented to having sex with my them 18 year old boyfriend.

I think it’s ok to ask for the names and telephone numbers of the GF’s parents given your son is living with them. If for no other reason than it would be good to exchange details in case of an emergency. It’s a bit odd that you haven’t even met each other. I’m pretty sure that mine and DH’s parents had met before it was serious enough for us to move in together (we also got together when we were young).

I wouldn’t say anything to your son about not wanting to see his GF. You don’t want to push him away.

My DS got involved with a GF like this when he was 16! She gradually became more and more controlling until we barely saw him! There was absolutely nothing i could do about it apart from wait until he had had enough and then be there for him! Its horrible when you can see how manipulative they are but until he's ready to see it there is no point you saying anything.

Grow up

…Thinking back to when I was seventeen (eighties) and went out with someone mid twenties. Wasn’t unusual in those days.

Yes, find a way, « how is it going with DS? Let me know if you want him to move out really, I know having an extra person in the house can have an impact. Actually I was surprised you offered, personally I wouldn’t have offered for her to move in, she is lovely but I just value a calm house too much (or whatever random reason ».

^^
This
I'd find a roundabout way of letting them know that her moving in was never in the cards.

Have you not worked with any 20 year olds in recent years? They're about as competent and mature as mid teens used to be. Kids grow up much slower than they used to, 20 is very much in the same emotional maturity category as 17.

@minnieot it's 2.5 years - get a grip and grow up. You sound very immature.

She's going to uni next year and he isn't?

Just hold on, she'll have dumped him in the first term.

This relationship isn't going to last.
Be super nice.
Ask your DS what he's contributing to their household. Point out he will be costing them extra and he needs to offer to pay his way.

She'll make him rent a room up there as well you think young people are easy. I am going through the same thing. The best thing to do is don't buy into it because it will cost.

@BridgetsBigPants yes I had been making a roast dinner each Sunday so we did chat then but now I think about it he's made excuses to miss the last couple. I'm not 100% sure if he's seeing his friends independently - they seem to do most socialising together, but their mutual friends are all in couples and all living together at parents, so I feel there's been an element of normalisation of that and them feeling left out.
DS seems to have dropped the gym which concerned me, but he did say he was planning to start football again which he's not played for years.
It's difficult to know what is being influenced and what is just normal ebbs and flows of life tbh.

I'm glad your son made the right decision, it really is tough to see them go through these situations, you just feel so helpless.

No I think you've misunderstood.
He's 2.5 years older.
He hasn't lied about anything that I can see, he was told by GF he was ok to move in, but she hadn't told him why the sudden change of her parents heart to allow this. It was a month or so before he found out that GF had threatened to move out if thet didn't allow him to move in.

I haven't said he can't come home, and he hasn't said he can't come home either. He's intimated that he wants to, but has dug himself a hole somewhat. I don't think he's lying about that.

He didn't say he couldn't come home and feed the dog without the GF coming with him. She invited herself.
He was calling in on his way past work at 5pm, he has about another 15 mins journey to get to GF's.
GF was supposed to be working until 8pm in the town they live in.
But GF instead asked DS if she could come see the dog and wanted to drive 15 mins out of her way in her own car to meet DS at my house.
He didn't ask her to do this.
She used "missing the dog" as an excuse to check in on where he was after work instead of him going straight back to hers.

Thank you for your advice around points a and b. I do take that on board. I've been reluctant to rock the boat and upset him, it's a delicate situation and there's a long history of EA from his F and paternal family and I'm also scared of pushing him away.

I mentioned in an earlier response that he's paying board, more than he paid at home I might add. 90% more.
They also buy their own food and cook their own meals.

So awful, I'm really sorry you went through this, you must've felt completely lost with him being just 16 as well. I know we all need to learn for ourselves but it's super difficult when you can't protect them.

I have definitely reminded myself of this a couple of times. I shouldn't expect too much, but that said she's 18 next month and a very intelligent person.
He probably should have turned down the offer, I agree with you there.

So if I made this post this time next month, after her 18th birthday and said "DS is 20, his GF 18" would you view things differently? It's a 2.5 year gap which is probably optimum for a heterosexual relationship being on the same wavelength, lets face it. I had a 20 yo bf at 18, and he was the youngest out of my friend's boyfriends. My parents married at 17 & 19. As did most people of their generation.