Son is failing to launch

[SOS2023]

I know this is a familiar problem on this board as I have looked at past threads. They don't seem to get updated though, so I don't know what has happened in these cases.

Advance warning - this is long.

Our situation - DS 22. Dropped out before A levels because thought he'd fail, we were given no warning and no chance of giving him support.

He had some therapy and was assessed as having ADHD and was also told possible autism, but as the years I think he shows more autistic traits than as a teen. He refuses ADHD medication saying it will make his sleep worse. He sleeps a lot.

Did some hospitality work, got an office job because he was sick of hospitality.
Then we think he was fired from the office job, though he didn't express it clearly.

He spent much of lockdown gaming and I think he was relieved to do that.

Then he got another hospitality job through a friend which he's done for a while, but asked us to pay for a college course, he said he'd do part time hospitality around his course but has already decided not to.

Tbh I am dreading the start of the course next week. I am sure he will come back with a long face and say he hates either the place or the people.

In the middle of all this, he had a lovely girlfriend for about 8 months. He says she left for no reason, but I think the reasons were probably that she had her life much more together. She lives in a houseshare, earns fine enough to pay for that, and I know she's politely suggested he cleans him room. We get him to do that every Sunday.

I am particularly worried as I feel he's gone a bit incel - every comment about women's issues is met with remarks about how men have it worse.

His father asked him to put a shirt on at brunch today, resulting in huffing and puffing, but I noticed he's not shaving his armpits, I know some women don't either but his armpit hair is seriously long. His personal hygiene/grooming is okayish, I have told him to shower once though on a recent hot day.

His younger sister is starting to resent coming here - she's at uni and I think it's a shame. He's usually in his room though but creates an atmosphere.

He eats nothing but junk food, if he can't afford it he just goes hungry.

DH thinks we've done everything we can, I think maybe he needs more therapy. We will pay for that. We both think we should ask for rent. I know he has to pay attention to college but tbh it's one of those courses that's not likely to lead anywhere. But you can't tell your DC that can you?

Welcome all advice. It feels like a real risk that he won't want to move out for years and years. He does his own chores and most of ours. I think he sees that as easier than earning rent money.

I think you should ask him to move out but do men really shave their armpits? I've never heard of that.

He’s 22. He needs to pay rent. You need to sit down and tell him the rules (keeping room tidy for example) and expectations. And he can do it or he can leave. And you need to stick to it.

but…why would he be shaving his armpits?! And why would it matter to you one way or another?

Also baffled by the armpits thing.

But yes, he moves out. If he’s failing to launch by himself he needs an ejector seat.

If he’s not actively trying to change himself, I suspect therapy will be an excuse for procrastination.

I was not expecting that as first response 😂

yes, I think a lot do. He comes swimming with us and he certainly used to.

forgot to add - he also has dandruff but refuses to wash his hair more often than about twice a week. His ex gf did talk to him about that but he just keeps saying "well everyone has dandruff".

I agree with PPs about charging him rent and having certain expectations re tidiness and cleanliness. I’d also be concerned about the potential incel thing.

I also agree with PPs about armpit hair - I don’t think I’ve ever known men to shave theirs. Trim it maybe?

In terms of paying rent, I feel he has sprung it on us last minute that he won't be working throughout the course. We have been ostriches here I admit, we didn't say "we will need rent while you do your course".

those saying ask him to leave, would you pay an allowance or pay rent directly? We've raised the issue before and he says he doesn't want to live in a flatshare but he has to. Or digs, or whatever.

his sister in a houseshare of 9, she worsk in uni holidays.

Re therapy as an excuse for procrastination, I was hoping it would help convince him to try some medication. I have a lot of anxiety issues, he's probably got that from me, but I take a low dose of sertraline and that helps.

If he's gone a bit in incel, I'd be really worried. Can you get him to listen to some male YouTubers who encourage people to reach their goals?
There are lots who are helping young men straighten themselves out.
Jordan Peterson gets a lot of bad press but he has some great advice for men who feel marginalised and he seems to appeal to them too.

DH got him a JP book but he didn't read much of it.

DS says JP is quite inaccessible on YouTube which I agree with, lot of waffling.

I may be over worrying re the incel thing. He's quite a fragile looking lad and got picked on at school, so I think he feels threatened by large groups. He used to go to football with DH before lockdown but now says he hasn't got the money, even if it's offered as a family thing.

he cried a lot when his GF dumped him but he was quite dependent on her. Had sudden enthusiasm for things like museums etc. So some of his comments may come from there.

“those saying ask him to leave, would you pay an allowance or pay rent directly? “

why is your assumption to pay for everything for a 22 year old?

I'm not saying no to everything posters suggest, I'm just at a loss.

if college doesn't suit, then I agree it's time to say "get full time work and move out". Am I being harsh though.

It obviously sounds very hard. But if he has autism, it’s likely that lots of this is because he feels very overwhelmed even if he can’t express that. Problems socialising, sensory issues, food issues etc. Lots of autistic people struggle to work or with attending school/college, maintaining relationships etc

I don’t know the answers but I do know that if your child is autistic, it’s not always realistic to think they’ll follow the usual school, college, work, relationship route that’s common with NT people.

If may be worth getting him assessed. He could possibly claim some benefits. There are charities that help autistic people find suitable work.

I would not expect him to move out under these circumstances

Firstly if he is on the spectrum then he is going to be very vulnerable

Secondly you need to tell him the college course is not going to help his career and that he should go back to the drawing board and really think about what he wants to do as a career?

Also you said he does all of the chores - well that’s quite kind of him

Do you need extra money? I mean you could ask for some and put it away to save for a place of his own

if you think anxiety is at the root of his reluctance to work then ask him to trial meds for 6 weeks - tell him if they’re not working etc then you’ll understand if he stops them

Tell him you are coming from a place of love and concern and only want the best for him!

Also completely baffled by the armpit hair comment. I don't know any man who shave their armpits, but if they do I imagine they are very much in the minority of men.

I think you need to decide if you want to teach him to live independently, in his own place, or if you want him to stay with you and be reliant on you for everyday things.
What is he capable of? Do you think he can live on his own or does he need general guidance for day to day living?

If you think he’s autistic then get him on the path to an assessment. Maybe a diagnosis would help him to understand himself more. At the moment I’m sure he feels like an utter failure.

I wasn’t diagnosed until my 40s but you wouldn’t believe what a difference it made to my mental health. I understand that I need downtime/recovery time after simple things like school coffee mornings and busy days out. I used to wonder what the hell was wrong with me.

Your son needs help figuring out how to operate as a ND person in a neurotypical world. Kicking him out isn’t going to do that.

I think you need to lay down some ground rules and a timetable.

I would sit him down and say you think he’s got stuck, what does he think?

listen and repeat what he’s saying back to him, but you want to get to the point where he accepts he has to get a job, and pay some rent.

I would also give him a gym nudge - would he be interested in that? Pay for that if you can - if you can afford a PT even better (and I would be quite frank with the senior coach he has ASD and you are worried about incel and you need a good with people male coach)

The incel thing is worrying in itself but also because it will send him down a rabbit Warren of failure - I’d find him a good male therapist. (not a fan of JP myself - but there are better resources so fine those). It’s important this is face to face not online for human contact.

There is work coaching and career advice available for ASD so access that - it may be hospitality isn’t for him and he needs to consider other things.

Aim that he goes into a flat share in 9 months. Keep the momentum going.

Obviously all this is expensive but I think now is a time when intervention may make a difference.

Am I meant to be shaving my armpit hair now. Is that a thing?

Aside from that @SOS2023 , it sounds like he's taking the piss. I think a lot of young people are struggling to find their get up and go at the moment, the pandemic definitely didn't help, and I don't think gaming is helping lots of young men either (and I say this as a grown man who games frequently but in moderation).

But honestly I think tough love is the answer here. Maybe kicking him out isn't the answer, but he needs to start paying his way, both monetarily and by doing his fair share around the house. Lay down the ground rules, and if he's not willing to live with them, he needs to find somewhere else to live.

Does he have an ASD diagnoses BTW? If not do get that started. It will help him understand himself.

I would give him until he’s 25 and make sure he knows that’s the limit he lives at home

I think a lot of people are approaching this from the POV of a parent of NT kids. For parents with ND kids, it can be a very different path.

As a pp said, being a ND person in a NT world can be very difficult.

I know someone a bit like this (except for the incel thing but they do get involved in lots of fringe things like climate groups etc because I think some people like this are quite easy to ‘radicalise’ for lack of a better word. Luckily attention span and motivation often mean moving onto the next thing after a while) with a combo of autism and adhd and the thing I will say is that with an adult diagnosis it seems like there is little to no support for how to learn to live with either. If they were diagnosed as a child people would be looking for techniques to help them navigate as adults.

It’s a catch 22 because you want him to get on with it like any other adult but the combo he has means it’s very unlikely he would have the focus and drive to find a pathway towards coping and organising his life himself. The only option’s really are to try and help him find resources to support himself independently or accept this and be prepared for him to periodically work and periodically return to you etc Id be concerned with him doing this course at the moment as there is a good chance he won’t get through it without loosing interest.

Hope others have some good advice for you.

Men shave their armpits in middle Eastern countries, but I wasn't aware that it was the custom in the UK/Europe.

I think you’ve been way, way too accommodating. He doesn’t seem to be aware that he needs to pay to live anywhere, or even that he really has to work. Be that at a job, at a relationship, at a course, and so on.

He needs to pay rent. And if he’s going to drop out of this course like he’s dropped out of everything else, he needs to work full time. And he needs to prepare to grow up and get his own home.

We're off out for a bit so just to address a few points

• he does most of the chores because we told him, when he dropped out of school, that he had to help the most around the house as we're all working/studying. I think we got him in a good habit there. He was on zero hours at work in the hospitality job but on a week with fewer hours, he would do our chores. We have a weekly cleaner though.

• He doesn't cook and no longer eats what we cook - he just wants junk food. He is now not cleaning up after most meals because he's not eating with us - fair enough - but he has brunch with us on a Sunday as he likes a fry up.

• posters asking why are we looking at paying the rent of a 22 year old? Atm, it's because we think he is much higher on the autism than the therapist said and we feel he is vulnerable so needs help achieving independence? I also think a lot of his time involves masking - perhaps that's why he found lockdown such a relief. But we have suggested another assessment and he got quite angry, saying "there's nothing wrong with me".

• the hair - it's just noticeable because we used to go swimming together and it seems to feed into a lack of grooming. He joked the other day "right, it's time I shaved and cut my hair, I look homeless". After his girlfriend left, he can't be bothered.

• Because he won't earn more, his wardrobe is now down to a very low number of clothes. He's now on one pair of shoes, because some trainers he bought recently turned out to be a bad fit. He was about to bin them and we suggested he ebay them. This was greeted by looks of horror and "but I've never ebayed anything, I don't know how". I said we'd show him, he said, "no, it's MY money I wasted, lesson learned" and took them directly to the outside bin, he can't be bothered to walk to the charity shop.

We have offered to buy him clothes, he says no.

He doesn't ask for money.

We paid for him to learn he drive, he passed but just says he doesn't want to drive. I usually tell him to get the bus but DH does give him lifts to work occasionally.

Re telling him his college course is useless (media) it feels a bit unfair because it might not be?

pre lockdown he played football and went swimming regularly. I understand why lockdown would get you out of that habit but he seems relieved not to go. He'd rather game in his room.

DH thinks we should give him this term and see how things go before saying anything about these issues.

But I have friends who have sons of nearly 30 who just stay in and game. I don't want that for my son but I don't know how to help if every suggestion of help is met with anger. It's a quiet, controlled anger, not shouting or anything you can comment on really.