Son is failing to launch

[SOS2023]

I know this is a familiar problem on this board as I have looked at past threads. They don't seem to get updated though, so I don't know what has happened in these cases.

Advance warning - this is long.

Our situation - DS 22. Dropped out before A levels because thought he'd fail, we were given no warning and no chance of giving him support.

He had some therapy and was assessed as having ADHD and was also told possible autism, but as the years I think he shows more autistic traits than as a teen. He refuses ADHD medication saying it will make his sleep worse. He sleeps a lot.

Did some hospitality work, got an office job because he was sick of hospitality.
Then we think he was fired from the office job, though he didn't express it clearly.

He spent much of lockdown gaming and I think he was relieved to do that.

Then he got another hospitality job through a friend which he's done for a while, but asked us to pay for a college course, he said he'd do part time hospitality around his course but has already decided not to.

Tbh I am dreading the start of the course next week. I am sure he will come back with a long face and say he hates either the place or the people.

In the middle of all this, he had a lovely girlfriend for about 8 months. He says she left for no reason, but I think the reasons were probably that she had her life much more together. She lives in a houseshare, earns fine enough to pay for that, and I know she's politely suggested he cleans him room. We get him to do that every Sunday.

I am particularly worried as I feel he's gone a bit incel - every comment about women's issues is met with remarks about how men have it worse.

His father asked him to put a shirt on at brunch today, resulting in huffing and puffing, but I noticed he's not shaving his armpits, I know some women don't either but his armpit hair is seriously long. His personal hygiene/grooming is okayish, I have told him to shower once though on a recent hot day.

His younger sister is starting to resent coming here - she's at uni and I think it's a shame. He's usually in his room though but creates an atmosphere.

He eats nothing but junk food, if he can't afford it he just goes hungry.

DH thinks we've done everything we can, I think maybe he needs more therapy. We will pay for that. We both think we should ask for rent. I know he has to pay attention to college but tbh it's one of those courses that's not likely to lead anywhere. But you can't tell your DC that can you?

Welcome all advice. It feels like a real risk that he won't want to move out for years and years. He does his own chores and most of ours. I think he sees that as easier than earning rent money.

He irons DH's shirts every Sunday and is very proud of it and it makes a big deal of it.

This is very revealing. It shows that once he has mastered a simple skill he will continue in it and take pride in it.

You can help him master the skill of tidying his room and making it a really appealing place to live.

You can help him master the art of good self-hygiene.

Bit by bit, once the skills have really taken root, he will get better. I think he really wants to launch - he's had a go at work, relationships, training etc - lots of DC fail at all of these several times before finding their niche.

Well, yes but neurodiverse people can still get a job!

OP
Has he thought about an apprenticeship?
If he didn’t complete any level 3 courses, he should still be funded.

Perhaps have a look at the gov Skills Boot camp ?

@Dotcheck Some can, some can’t. Obviously.

@Dotcheck yep some do, like DH.
And some need a job adapted to their ND, like FIL.
And yet again some simply can’t, like the ds of a very good friend.

Managing to go to school up to GCSE or even A level/Uni isn’t a criteria to tell you if someone who is ND can hold down a job either…. (Because it’s not an issue with knowledge or intelligence)

OP I've been through this and come out the other side.

From a very young age I could see ND traits in my son, but school never saw them. When I attended a meeting at school with my son and his teacher when he was about 15 I found out why. In conversation with his teacher I didn't recognise my son. So eloquent, so cooperative - he was masking although I didn’t understand the word at that time. An ASD assessment was never suggested by school and I didn’t know at the time there was a private route.

At school he was one of the clever kids. Had a small group of equally clever friends and took A levels in a very specific range of subjects and got a job that would lead to a very well paid profession. After two years he was asked to leave. Much later he shared that he'd found the job very stressful. Office based, targets to meet. I hadn't picked up on this at all.

The next two years were spent unemployed, 'fitness training' although he rarely left his bedroom.

He got bored and, inspired by a family member, applied out of the blue for uni - a course way below his academic ability. He lived at home for the first year and then got a place in a house share. Didn't manage to form any friendships with housemates or those on his course, but through a uni hobby group made a few friends and had something of a social life. Got his degree and came home.

Spent the next two years unemployed designing programmes for a project he believed he could make a living from. Lived at home; was untidy; personal hygiene not great; bedroom a tip; rarely spoke to me.

He got bored and started applying for jobs, again inspired by a family member who was doing so. My son got a job in a call centre that paid fairly well. Around this time he also developed an interest in a fairly niche hobby and began to make some money from it, although he was also spending a lot on it as well.

I told him I needed my house back as his hobby equipment was taking over. We talked about how he'd be able to expand his hobby interests if he got his own place and discussed a timeline.

We started going for walks together - his idea - something we'd never done before. My son talked to me like neve before, about his worries, feelings, negative experiences he'd had. And I came to realise that when he did this it was a sign his mental health was having a wobble. He didn’t want to see a doctor as he was anti meds but he did go off walking on his own for long periods, and told me he had phoned the Samaritans several times which he'd found helpful.

For me this period was terrifying but we continued with the plan for him to find a place of his own. This took over a year, but he now has a rented place of his own about 20 minutes from where we live.

18 months on, there are now no issues with personal hygrine and he's just bought a car. He's had a promotion at work but his focus is very much on his hobby. Work is simply to give him money to finance it and his home. He has some online contact with a few people who are equally focussed on his hobby and is in touch with one uni friend. By my standards his home is a tip, but that's not my business.

He comes to us for a meal every couple of weeks and we have a few brief phone chats. My son seems fairly content, fairly grown up. Like a pp said, I've had to alter my hopes and expectations for him. I can now see the value that his hobby brings to his life, a life of his choosing.

I think my son is likely ND, but he doesn't so there will be no assessment. However, I'm certain that throwing him out in his early 20s, or earlier, to fend for himself would have ended badly. I often look at young homeless men, listen to how eloquently some of them speak, and think that could have been my son.

Hello OP,

I apologise if I have posted this before. I certainly meant to, but I think I deleted what I was going to write. However, I just wanted to say that my youngest son is 22 and is very very similar to your son.

He has a long history of not completing (an often not even starting) anything through fear of failure, inability to change routines, inability to control his escalating anxiety, and a whole host of other issues related to mental health issues.

He stopped attending school at 13 due to overwhelming anxiety, received tuition from a home tutor (whom he hid from most of the time) and dropped out of college within a week of attending (having been mute throughout every session).

He has an EHCP which states SEMH as the primary need, but this has been next to useless due to his failure to engage.

Now, at 22, he has a serious eating disorder, brought on, no doubt, through other unaddressed issues. He is just beginning to accept appointments to see a mental health worker, who (I hope) will gently unpick some of my son's issues and help him accept a gentle step into adulthood, perhaps through working towards a supported internship or an online course.

Someone mentioned Pathological Demand Avoidance (PDA) and I am sure this profile fits my youngest son. Even though he is not at the stage of considering pursuing an assessment, the strategies that are useful for many people with PDA (these go under the acronym PANDA) have been useful for my son. If you look on the PDA Society UK website, you will be able to find information on the PANDA model of support.

Another thing that you could consider is seeking support for yourself. I am sure that, like me, you can see your son's potential, and fear that he is going to drift into even more unhealthy preoccupations (Jordan Peterson and (dare I mention his name?) Andrew Tate present the world in concrete, black and white terms that may be easier for young men who feel cut off from the world to understand. The complex, nuanced, unpredictable social world is often difficult for some young men to navigate.

I have enquired about a carer's assessment. I am not sure if I meet the criteria for any extra support, but I need to know more about how I can help my son, and how I can ensure my own mental health remains stable. I work from home and my son lives with me, so support and continued presence can be intense.

I find it hard to talk about my son because many people respond with the 'He needs a good kick up the backside!' reply. Yet, he is so extremely vulnerable and forgotten to some extent by services who should have been more proactive in his support.

So, please, consider the strategies recommended by the PDA Society, contact Adult Social Service and see about a carer's assessment (I work from home, so the assessment is not about money, but rather about finding sources of support), but most of all, be there for your son. Listen to him. Try not to evaluate him against norms that may not be appropriate for him yet. I know I want my son to find a job, and/or study and move forward. However, he needs to take much more tentative first steps.

I apologise for this post being long and muddled, but I will finish by saying you are not alone.

Thank you
We have talked to him and increasingly believe a diagnosis could be apt - but he doesn't want it, so that's that.

Janet how old is your son now, when did he start to live independently?

haha I think the junk food thing started in lockdown as it was the only legit way to leave the house for a while. Haven't eating disorders gone up a lot in that time, I suppose it's about what we can control.

My son is very strongly anti Andrew Tate, I'm pleased to say. Are you familiar with all the "consensual violence" stuff he had on his own social media? I am puzzled to hear anyone suggest him as a good influence.

I didn't know that EDs had gone up during lockdown although I can imagine it did. My DD has been told that she very likely has ARFID but there's no help available.

It's not anything to do with lockdown though, she's always been like that.

Hello OP,

So sorry for the unclear information. I definitely did not mean to present either Jordan Peterson or Andrew Tate as good influences. I should have edited to state that they are particularly harmful influences that some young men, who may think in concrete terms, could find persuasive. I am so glad your son is anti Tate.

I think there was an escalation in EDs and in other mental health issues during lock down. However, my son's unhealthy preoccupation with food, weight and body shape began quite some time before that. In a sense, he has been locked down for many years.

Your son's course at college should be starting this week. I hope all goes well.

Thanks again

Two weeks of college and the strain is starting to show, he isn't eating much at all. I'm going to get fish and chips now in the hope of tempting him, I won't push of course.

I'm not sure if I'm reading into things but something else struck me today. As a child, DS needed to be shown how to do things much more than his sister or our nephews.

I know we all forget things, but as an example - one summer we didn't camp on holiday, he had always been a whizz at putting up a tent but then with a year gap he had forgotten absolutely all of it. I think that's possibly why he doesn't want to drive - hyperfocus got him through learning but then he couldn't retain it.

Is that more of an ADHD thing though?

I'm so sorry that he's struggling already. Do you know which bits he's struggling with. I know it might be impossible for him to know. One of the things our DD struggles with is navigating getting there and back so we are current her transport. Week 2 and she's already really tired and a bit snappy though so I hear you

It's partly the social aspect, and the commute is a problem but the Tube has been horrendously hot.

he hasn't said much about the course. I think one reason hospitality suited him is he's a night owl - left to myself, so am I.

conversations last weekend didn't get us anywhere but he said to look up ADHD medication - now we have,
i can see why it's a much scarier prospect than the mild AD i have.

Sorry to hear your DD is having this too. But it's early days, right? It's good you can help with the commute.

I think the fact that we can help her out and that her course is 100% coursework helped her decide on the course.

What a tender post. You sound so loving and concerned for him. It is so good to hear he is doing well.

My DS is neurodiverse and is just embarking on adult life away from home. He has good friendships and interests but I really hope he can find a job and cope with the work environment.