Son is failing to launch

[SOS2023]

I know this is a familiar problem on this board as I have looked at past threads. They don't seem to get updated though, so I don't know what has happened in these cases.

Advance warning - this is long.

Our situation - DS 22. Dropped out before A levels because thought he'd fail, we were given no warning and no chance of giving him support.

He had some therapy and was assessed as having ADHD and was also told possible autism, but as the years I think he shows more autistic traits than as a teen. He refuses ADHD medication saying it will make his sleep worse. He sleeps a lot.

Did some hospitality work, got an office job because he was sick of hospitality.
Then we think he was fired from the office job, though he didn't express it clearly.

He spent much of lockdown gaming and I think he was relieved to do that.

Then he got another hospitality job through a friend which he's done for a while, but asked us to pay for a college course, he said he'd do part time hospitality around his course but has already decided not to.

Tbh I am dreading the start of the course next week. I am sure he will come back with a long face and say he hates either the place or the people.

In the middle of all this, he had a lovely girlfriend for about 8 months. He says she left for no reason, but I think the reasons were probably that she had her life much more together. She lives in a houseshare, earns fine enough to pay for that, and I know she's politely suggested he cleans him room. We get him to do that every Sunday.

I am particularly worried as I feel he's gone a bit incel - every comment about women's issues is met with remarks about how men have it worse.

His father asked him to put a shirt on at brunch today, resulting in huffing and puffing, but I noticed he's not shaving his armpits, I know some women don't either but his armpit hair is seriously long. His personal hygiene/grooming is okayish, I have told him to shower once though on a recent hot day.

His younger sister is starting to resent coming here - she's at uni and I think it's a shame. He's usually in his room though but creates an atmosphere.

He eats nothing but junk food, if he can't afford it he just goes hungry.

DH thinks we've done everything we can, I think maybe he needs more therapy. We will pay for that. We both think we should ask for rent. I know he has to pay attention to college but tbh it's one of those courses that's not likely to lead anywhere. But you can't tell your DC that can you?

Welcome all advice. It feels like a real risk that he won't want to move out for years and years. He does his own chores and most of ours. I think he sees that as easier than earning rent money.

Will your DS be eligible to sign on as unemployed? If so this should bring him some money, he will have to look for work, and, importantly, he will get NI credits.

About 12 years ago, at the age of 18, DD decided she didn't want to go to university. We told her she would have to sign on, and we would ask for 20% of her benefit. After a couple of months she got a job in hospitality, then asked her employer to put her on an apprenticeship, which they did. We still only asked for 20%.

She did do a course while on the hospitality apprenticeship, but just one day a week, and connected to her work.

She eventually got an IT apprenticeship, and since then has never looked back.

Some proper back-to-the-60s advice from some of the pps here. It's an aside, but in case op was going to do it, Jordan Petersen is absolutely not a cure incels, not least because they're generally a huge fan of his beliefs including the importance of 'enforced monogamy', the belief that society has been shaped by women saying no (and scepticism of oppression of women in history, and an entire book categorising men as order and women as chaos.

Also think the idea of him being surrounded by 'old school men' isn't likely to help him any more than it did many men who failed to launch in previous generations and still do in other cultures but were helped by family (like one of my uncles), kept afloat by a booming economy and asset appreciation (many baby boomers), or fell through the cracks and ended up in poverty or worse, but also near-invisible to fretting middle class families of today.

Agree with others that some toughness is in order, to support him in pulling his weight. Even if you can't get him to go along or learn more, you can also do your own learning about being the parent of a ND adult child, it could really help.

Also it's really important for your DD's sake. She's watching too, and she'd be saintly if she isn't fuming a bit that she's supporting herself and doing more, while he sends tens of thousands of pounds down the drain then gets his rent paid while dad tiptoes up at lunch with a specially made sandwich to tempt his appetite away from gaming. Of course you want to rescue him and hopefully one day you'll all look back on this with a grimace and a sigh of relief, but also make sure you don't lose hold the child who is trying, on the way - or of yourself.

Cantstaystucjfirever "while he sends tens of thousands of pounds down the drain"

he hadn't spent a penny of our money, not sure where that came from? No way are my kids ever doing that! This college course is free. He's been working up until his last shift yesterday.

DD is a big concern in all this. I don't want her suffering the effects of a brother who failed to launch. I've seen it happen to more than one friend in fact, two more than the one I mentioned on this thread.

Imnotworthy I didn't think he'd be allowed to sign on, I'll check. But honestly, he could work alongside this course, I've seen the timetable. He told us that was his plan till yesterday.

I've literally never met a man that shaves his armpits. And I'm quite old. I don't think you should worry about that. There are much bigger issues to be focusing on here!

Eh? You don't pay his rent or give him an allowance. He claims universal credit. Then he'll find out the option to be a full time student doesn't exist. He's either capable of working or he isn't. If he isn't, he needs to claim the health side of universal credit. If he is, he needs to get a job. Housing costs side of universal credit pays his rent, topped up by his wages or the living costs part of universal credit. Yes of course he's going to be sharing, he can't afford a solo place and no landlord will take him when he's on benefits anyway, someone will rent him a room though.

he hadn't spent a penny of our money,

Therapy, that you'll pay for, when all the while he's no desire or intention to change. College courses that you initially said he asked you to pay for. Gas, electric, water, food, toiletries at home. All of which you'll be paying for if he has no income. The unpaid rent on his room at home that could be rented out to someone else. If you're happy to have someone there creating an atmosphere so bad your DD doesn't want to come home, you may as well get paid for that! Or better yet, find a pleasant lodger to share with who doesn't create atmosphere, isn't an incel and doesn't think the world owes him a living. I realize you have no intention of renting the room out but the fact remains it's something he's getting for free and he's not even grateful.

His girlfriend left because he has no work ethic, is dirty and doesn't clean enough. She saw a potential cocklodger with questionable personal hygiene and a bit of an attitude problem and she walked, I don't blame her.

I don't know any men who shave their armpits either but I wish they would 😂

That's interesting him saying how proud he is of you and how you don't need the meds. I'd talk to him about how it is precisely because you're on a low dose of Medication that you have coped. Perhaps he's confusing antidepressants with drugs like Valium?

I know he's not diagnosed with ASD but is he officially diagnosed with ADHD?

If he is, I'd talk to him about applying for PIP and having some ADHD Coaching, you'd probably need to pay for the Coaching though.

Our DS has ADHD and we've got him to try the Meds as a short term thing to see how they are. We've not offered them as a permanent thing as they don't suit a lot of people and I know he wouldn't be happy thinking that he'd be on them for life.

Could you suggest that he tries ADHD medication just whilst he takes the course?

It's a shame he won't seek a diagnosis for the ASD. My DD is current in the pathway and Melatonin has made such a difference for all of us as she feels so much better now she has some sleep.

If he won't take Meds though and is gaming until 4am, I'd have a talk about how he knows that's not healthy. Is he using your Wi-Fi too? I'd be tempted to turn it off at 11pm each night.

Agree with the PP who say that ND people are often operating at a younger age. Also agree that he probably needs some downtime after work or when he's been with people. That doesn't mean that with guidance though he can't achieve what he wants.

We've had to accept that with our youngest she will probably live with us for a long time but we are definitely building those independence skills along the way.

I've just thought of a couple of other things to try:

Neutrogena Sensitive Scalp Shampoo should sort out the dandruff, even if he's only washing his hair twice a week. It doesn't have a strong smell like some others and is way more gentle than Head & Shoulders.

Also, could he be feeling criticised by what you and your family think are usual discussions and helpful advice?

Do you think he might have PDA traits? I'd look up PDA and if you think that might be part of the issue, start some tactics to use with people with PDA and see if that improves his situation and the household.

siouxie thank you for your suggestions. I would find it very difficult to suddenly be told that he's operating at a younger age and will need to live with us a long time etc. Did you find that hard?

In many ways, I thought going into work early was a plus, - after the shock of him leaving school that way - and thought a lot of the regression was lockdown related.

Re the meds, he does understand the difference in terms of my meds vs tranquilisers, and will not try ADHD meds for even one day. Last night DH suggested he get a herbal supplement, that suggestion went down much better.

Meanwhile college asked if he had an ECHP I think it is, he doesn't. He's looking into this now.

Re the course costs - we said we were prepared to fund a course for him, yes, but he found this one and it's free. I think that's good also that he looked at free courses and I think his ethic of not wanting to take money is good.

He still hasn't said a word about spending money. Perhaps he has saved enough not to ask.

Lookimg up PDA now.

People with ASD and ADHD take way longer to launch than most. DS2 has both and has needed way more support and time than his neurotypical brother. I have never made him feel that there is a time limit on what he learns when. He's doing his best and in his own time, he's getting there.

So is your son. Look for the positives. At 22 he has already had a few paid jobs and had a girlfriend for several months. That is him trying to launch. He's not been wholly passive. he's now trying to complete a college course. He is way ahead of some non-launchers despite two handicaps.

If he is off to college and you can afford it, I strongly agree with his decision not to work too. ASD/ADHD people genuinely need more down time to process information than neurotypical ones. Having a job and college could be overload and end up with him jacking in both. Discuss his reasons for this decision and show respect and support for them. Agree that so long as he sticks with his college work and keeps up to date with it, you will support him, rent free. Make sure the college is aware of his diagnosis and making reasonable adjustments for him.

I can't swear to this, as I haven't seen his profile but I think DS is open about his neurodiversity on OLD. He seems to attract lovely neurodiverse girls who get him. He was heading towards that ugly incel attitude but success with OLD has killed that off really quickly. Maybe worth suggesting he is open about this if he is on the lookout for a new girlfriend.

If he won't take ADHD meds, lots of medics strongly recommend a high dose of B vitamin supplements and a separate magnesium. I'd also add an iron capsule like Ferroglobin and a Vit D spray if he is always tired. DS takes all these and we both really notice if he stops taking them.

Honestly, aside from the somewhat bad attitude, he sounds exactly like my brother - who is autistic

You need to push for a further assessment for him. Supports can be put in place to help him. It’s easier for him to sit in his room playing video games because everything else is overwhelming. He’s created safety for himself, and might need a lot of handholding to realize it can be safe outside of that.

Like your DS, my brother has been radicalized by a lot of things. He’s not an incel by any means, but he listens to people on the internet talking about things that aren’t even true. Problem is, he can’t understand why people would lie for attention, so thinks it’s true. Won’t listen to us at all.

Don’t listen to PPs who are showing no compassion here. Autism isn’t a choice, and if that’s what is going on here, your DS is struggling.

You’re his parents, you brought him into the world. Parenting doesn’t stop at 18, or 21. You need to advocate for him - but ONLY to a point.I’m not saying you should take full responsibility for his actions AT ALL. He is an adult, but he’s not a typical adult. There’s a lot that he hasn’t been taught how to handle, and there’s a lot you and your DH haven’t been taught how to handle about having an ASD child. The three of you need to sit down and make a plan. First step is contacting your GP for a referral

Re. the dandruff - has he seen the very catchy and appealing TV ad. for Head and Shoulders - currently showing repeatedly on SKY news (at least as of yesterday).?
It might cheer him up. He seems depressed?
Re. the junk food - does he know about healthy diet - vitamins. proteins etc.?
At least he's not on drugs - but this may be a slippery slope?

So when he announced he wasn't going to work throughout the college course - what did you say to him?

Just trying to understand the dynamics at play here. A lot of the time, people say 'they know they need to xx' about someone failing to launch, when in reality, no big sit down conversation has actually been had, it's all offhand comments/questions here and there, and if you are autistic then sometimes it's just not clear what's expected of you.

You both sound really caring, but any solution that is based on 'let him figure it out' like your DH says isn't going to work - this is how many young adults find they are unemployable in their late 20s because they have no work history to speak of.

A proper, week by week plan, with clear goals - maybe even written out? Depends on what you think would help or how you think would be best to do it so as not to overwhelm him.
A lot of parents fall into the trap of, because they know discussion of moving out etc, stresses their child out - they never talk about it directly, or avoid the subject, and it turns into this massive negative thing - all these steps need to be treated as positive, exciting things - be understanding of any nerves etc, but don't fall into the trap of you treating it like this big hard thing you are forcing him to do - that reinforces the idea that it IS a big hard thing. And while it is big and hard, it should still treated as 'difficult, but positive (and inevitable)' as opposed to 'hard, you HAVE to, eventually' - if that makes sense?

His comment saying to you that you'd handled the redundancy news well was really sweet, does he have an idea of the impact of this situation on you, or how you would worry in the future, or how you want him to be independent because of what if you fall into a situation where you can no longer support him? Again, not trying to overwhelm him, but if he's autistic he may need some 'obvious' parts spelt out in clear terms.

I have a deadline looming but just wanted to say thank you to everyone, this has been really helpful and I feel like I know where to start now.

will definitely be suggesting that vitamin combo as well, it's similar to what I took for a long time when working long hours and travelling for work, in fact.

thank you all, it's been so useful.

I think that I wouldn't kick him out but I would try and insist that he find another job, so he has his own money, it takes him out of the house more, sense of responsibility blah blah. is he refusing to have a job? is his college course full time? it's good that he WANTS to go to college

Only just caught up with this thread.

Re: dandruff. He could try washing his hair less often for a while, it might help. Or take a break and switch to a different shampoo.

I see he does a lot of chores, because others are studying and working. How much studying should he be doing a week, according to the college, or your own estimate from your own experience of you and him when you were studying? I suggest you work out how many hours he needs to devote to college, including attending courses, preparation, research, writing essays and presentations, etc. As he is studying media studies, he will likely have to read newspapers, watch films or TV programs, etc which all takes time. There's also travelling time to consider.

Then you can all see whether he can fit in a p/t job as well, and whether the allocation of chores will need changing or not.

I mean this kindly but you seem very nice and I would have dealt with things in a different way.

Dandruff I would just replace the shampoo with one that deals with dandruff. No biggy.

Wouldn't even mention it. If I think my adult boys are bath dodging I push the issue by suggestion eg 'do you want me to stick the bath on?' ' do you need fresh towels?' 'I need to do your sheets' etc. And I don't take no for an answer.

The work thing. I have three boys and two are autistic. They all have to work it's non negotiable. It is so much more than the money. My youngest is at uni and he would stay indoors all day if I let him. He has been driving a tractor at a farm for the hols as it's not ok to just veg/ game/ sleep.

I would buy clothes/ trainers/ etc the same as the ones he has. He is neglecting himself and I wouldn't stand by and watch that.

I would suspect college asked about an ehcp as he presents as a student with needs. They go up to 25 generally but he is unlikely to get one now and without considerable input. The wait is long.

I would just reframe things. You want him to launch then let him know expectations. I honestly don't think living elsewhere is going to help him. It doesn't meant your stuck with him until he is 40. Covid definitively had an affect on some young people.

I would think carefully about applying for PIP as he will have to do it due to his age. They will want to talk to him and he will have to demonstrate why his diagnosis effects his ability to do certain tasks. That might be difficult if he is very reluctant to discuss his issues or refuses to recognise them.

These are just my thoughts. I wish you well. Lastly does the wifi need to be on all night if he is in college? And he is not paying for it? Sleep is so important.

Hope it goes well.

I have a young adult son who is autistic, he receives PIP and UC and lives in a student-friendly room with shared cooking facilities. I'm his guarantor for the rent, but he pays for everything himself with no trouble. He isn't interested in working at the moment, but he has managed to carry on with his studies. He's a gamer, and finds socialising difficult, so defaults to his PC if he's not in college. He comes round for meals at least once a week though, and I think our relationship is better now he's living life on his own terms.

I would work towards getting him out, OP. If he knows he is welcome at home and you can helpfully manage him living elsewhere, he'll likely be a happier person. Living in a permanent state of young adolescence isn't the best for anyone, surely.

@MidgesGirdle the problem with that for OP is that her son refuses to engage with the GP so getting a diagnosis so he can get UC and PIP is unlikely?
When was your son diagnosed if you don't mind me asking. My sons were diagnosed fairly young but even then my eldest (who is autistic, adhd and severe mental health problems) has had his PIP stopped.
I am just wondering if her son moves out what exactly is he going to live on? If they are fully supporting him he may as well be at home? Or how long will they continue it for?

Yes we did and it's taken a lout of taking about how much we care for them and how we'll be here to support them for as long as they need. We haven't directly said that "you're probably about 3 years behind" but we've had vague conversations about how this may be the case for some people with ASD and they often need some some additional support.

I don't know much about an ECHP. College obviously think he needs one if they're asking this soon.

You might be best asking about applying for one in the SN Teens & Young Adults Section.

If you are applying for an ECHP you might not need to look for free courses or find courses for him as I think they might be able to stay in Education until 25. Like I say though, I'm a bit new to ECHPs and you're better checking

If he loves gaming so much, and is possible autistic and is ADHD so likely needs focus on something he loved, and if he seemed happier when he was working how about suggesting he goes back to college to become a game developer? It sounds like he needs some direction

Sorry was replying to this but below:

siouxie thank you for your suggestions. I would find it very difficult to suddenly be told that he's operating at a younger age and will need to live with us a long time etc. Did you find that hard?