All parents are toxic narcissists apparently and all adult children have experienced trauma …

[ElspethBulgeworthythethird]

Is anyone else a bit cheesed off with the on-line rhetoric that teens and young adults seem to be plugged in to nowadays…? That somehow everyone is a victim?

That every parent is toxic or a narcissist and every woman over fifty is a “Karen”?

That everyone is suffering from trauma or needs to “heal their inner child”

Oh and then there are all the “special” on-line morning routines that involve, er, getting up, washing, eating your breakfast and maybe exercising; all of which I thought were just standard things that most people did every day without much fuss.

I don’t mean to sound horrible or unsympathetic. Of course there are some young men and women who have suffered truly awful upbringings and serious abuse which has traumatised them terribly. I am not addressing them in this post as of course they need proper support.

This post is about the comfortable young adults I know (my adult children and teens and their friends) who seem to buy in to the rhetoric of victimhood when I happen to know that they have loving parents and come from good homes where their parents willingly made lots of sacrifices for them.

Don’t get me wrong, I happen to think that the period of life between leaving university and getting your first job is one of the most challenging you experience as a young adult; when the struggle finding a job and a flat and new friends and standing on your own feet financially is suddenly very real all at once.

It’s just the culture of this generation that seems to make everyone in to a victim that I object to? Somehow everyone is “special” and “in need of healing” and I get labelled toxic if I say to my young adults that although you are special to me, we are just a very ordinary family, and life is about getting on with things and working hard and not blaming everyone else when you don’t put in enough effort and commitment yourself.

Certainly on mumsnet it seems that most mums (and especially MILs!) are narcissists!
I'd never heard the word outside psychiatrics until recently.

I don’t know the answer to your question but I do wonder if the current styles of parenting, whereby children are given very little freedom or responsibility either for doing things or their own actions had meant that the transition to adult hood is a big shock, as it is much more sudden and ‘big’ than had exposure happened more gradually over life.

In my own life, if viewed externally, we’d have look exactly like you say, but actually, once I went to uni, I was basically on my own (again it probably wouldn’t look like this externally). That has been hard to compute and does shape my view of my childhood in general.

I'd say children born in the 70s and 80s and earlier suffered abuse that would be unacceptable now.

I used to get slapped as a punishment for pretty much everything.

I don't think there is victimhood in that.

The 20 somethings of today and younger though think they are being abused if they don't get what they want when they want it and normal life is something they need to "heal" from.

So the older late 30s and older generations were likely abused by family though it was acceptable then. Any younger and it's just thinking victimhood is trendy.

Narcissist drives me mad. It's pretty rare in fact.

I think it can be very healthy to understand that parents may intentionally or unintentionally contribute to poor mental health.

My mum was very overprotective and tbh I had an excellent child but I lack some confidence as an adult.

I dont agree with making yourself a victim. But I do agree with inner child work etc.

Is it really anything new though? It's been normal for donkeys years for teenagers to feel persecuted and misunderstood, and like their parents are dictators who know nothing of their pain. The labels of 'toxic' and 'narcissist' just add fuel to what the kids are feeling anyway. I do think a lot more parents pander to their kids these days, and are a lot less likely to nod and smile and let them find their own way through it

I also don't think this is new. It's more public though. I definitely remember friends being a bit judgemental about our parents. Now some of us are parents we view it a bit differently. But as teenagers and early twenties, we all thought our parents were the worst. Actually we were all fairly sheltered.

I think maybe you should try and see it from their perspective. People just talk more openly about their feelings and their mental health now days...
And you honestly can't tell from the outside what has gone on within a family.. you say you 'know these adults had loving parents but you've no idea what went on in private really.
Bridge the gap and listen to complaints with compassion. Validate feelings instead of immediately dismissing them. Maybe all adult children would be less aggrieved if they were actually listened to instead of immediately dismissed as ungrateful and oversensitive by the older generation.
None of us are perfect parents even with the best of intentions. I only hope that when my kids point out something I did to hurt them I do not respond with defensiveness and anger but with apology. And I hope they in turn come to realise I was trying my best even if I did get it wrong. I think its just about honesty.
Ask yourself why it makes you so angry to hear these adult children complaining?
Sometimes that can be jealousy because you yourself never felt safe enough to complain or even admit to yourself about trauma you endured as a child. You might resent the younger generations ability to speak up over what you perceived as minor things.

Nor me Saraclara I don’t know where all this talk about narcissists is coming from? Or who first used the term? Or why everyone is interested in the subject in the first place?

I’ve no doubt they exist but it seems to be every other person who doesn’t happen to agree with your pov is a narcissist currently!

When we were young we were taught to respect our elders (and of course some were worthy of respect and others were definitely not) and to look to our own behaviour and try and improve it. Whereas on line my YAs are being encouraged to view everyone with suspicion and to always blame someone else for their own shortcomings. I think it’s sad.

I know there’s a balance and it’s healthy to bring up children who have good self esteem and self confidence and proper boundaries but this rhetoric of “loving yourself and being proud of yourself” can very easily tip in to cocky entitled whazzock 😄

Disclaimer: My teens and young adults are good people. They teach me lots. They are turning in to productive adults despite a few hiccups along the way. I’m proud of them and love them so much but boy the amount of shite they absorb from on-line sources and then spout at the dinner table is shocking. I try and listen and be open and understand but I just don’t get it.

I’m sorry you had a tough time at university Pooheadbumbum it sounds like you weren’t supported properly by your parents.

I think your first paragraph makes a lot of sense. The transition nowadays to adulthood is very hard after the intensive sort of parenting we all do (as compared with the benign neglect of the 60s and 70s that I experienced).

I apologised to my young adult about something recently- and he said "Yes, it was shit, but actually, you were right, and it made what I'm doing now possible." So either he is completely brainwashed....

Young adults are infantilised to the point of incapacitation in some cases. I cannot understand the amount of helicoptering that goes on, if threads on here are to be believed. Stop washing your 24 year old's pants fgs.

Isn't it normal? "They fuck you up, your mum and dad", but with different language?

Yes actually have first hand experience of this . My own DD had a loving, caring positive and disciplined upbringing . Not going to deny she pushed the boundaries way beyond the limit at times as all kids do. She is now in her early 30s and suddenly in the last 2 years we are shit parents , narcissistic, gave her the worst childhood ever , abusive .The list goes on . This came completely out of the blue Her attacks became so bad that we reduced contact with her and haven't seen her face to face for nearly 2 years . I now no longer care if I never see her again . This attitude is everywhere it's an absolute race to the bottom , who's had the most therapy who has the worst parents and the internet seems to be fueling the shit out of it. Fucking sick of it !

And people just kept more quiet about abuse in the past. You'd see the lovely married middle class parents in their lovely home and that was that.
But behind closed doors children were being treated in terrible ways but people just didn't talk about it as much back then unless it was extreme physical abuse.

I have recently realised my mother is a narcissist. Its not an easy thing to accept. Its not easy to actually maintain anger towards your parents as an adult child. You naturally love your parents and you naturally want to feel they love you so you'll do anything to try and bend the narrative to make that true. As an only child I also had no real witnesses so it was easier to think of myself as the bad one who was just troubled. As an adult I just kept away.. I left home at 16.. and had limited contact and I could just pretend. Now I've had my own children tho its brought it home the things she did and the way she behaves even now. And other people have now seen it and expressed concerns to me. I can no longer pretend she isn't a stone cold narcissist. She's honestly psychopathic almost.
And I've had conversations with friends who come from seemingly lovely family backgrounds whove revealed horrific abuse to me.
You honestly do not know and can not tell externally what goes on behind closed doors.
So be careful when dismissing these claims from adult children. Listen to them with an open mind.

My parents were terrible and I have had to have therapy due to them. I don’t have contact with them and haven't for many years.

But it’s not everyone, some of my friends have fantastic parents who they remain close to. Others definitely have toxic/narcissistic parents. There’s a lot of shit parents out there.

My own kids, adults/teens now, don’t talk about us as toxic or narcissistic because we’re not. But I think it’s a good thing that people are recognising bad treatment and not putting up with it. This ‘blood is thicker than water’ nonsense that made people think they had to accept things because ‘family’ is no longer a thing. Thankfully.

'And you honestly can't tell from the outside what has gone on within a family.. you say you 'know these adults had loving parents but you've no idea what went on in private really.'

This is such a good point. I had 'loving' parents who took good care of us, were highly invested in our education and we wanted for nothing materially but my god did they fuck the three of us up emotionally

I really am trying to see it from their perspective. And I think it’s great that people can talk openly about their mental health. That can only be a good thing!

And I certainly don’t consider myself the best parent ever. I have lots of faults. But I know my dh and I tried our very best where our dc were concerned and they always came first. We did listen and validate. Our dc had much more of a say and influence in our household than we ever did as children. We tried to provide a calm, loving home.

Also I am not sure that being “cheesed off” equates to defensiveness and anger. I am mostly bemused.

I take your point about not knowing truly what goes on in families but my dc have been lucky enough to grow up with a fairly tight circle of friends and we all get on with the other parents too. (We share a sport in common.) And all the dc have slept at one another’s houses countless times and remain close.

And most importantly none of the dc have complained about mistreatment, but still believe this stuff on-line; that there is a narcissist waiting around every corner.

That is what I am talking about really. There seems to be no objective comparison between what they have experienced in reality and what they observe on line. They don’t question it.

I don't think it's anything particularly new it's just amplified by social media. I think a lot of teenagers don't view their parents as human beings and just view them solely as parents and expect their idea of perfection (whatever that is). Life isn't like that though, aside from the emotionally and physically abusive and neglectful parents of which I'm not wanting to minimise the effects of, the majority of parents did their best whilst juggling work and everything else. I think the teen years is when lots of parents start prioritising their time more and stepping slowly away from the intensity of parenting young, dependent children as well, and some teens dislike that.

Lots change their views if they become parents and they realise the reality.

Evidence from the U.K. shows that about 50 per cent of under 18s have experienced at least one ACE.

ACE means adverse childhood experience and is the jargon for a negative thing that impacts child development - so divorce, physical abuse, mental illness of parent etc.

Realistically this means that about 50 per cent of 18 year olds HAVE experienced an event that they are very likely to see as traumatic.

So while it may not be the parents' fault, the evidence is that quite a lot of them are impacted.

The research paper summarising research from many different countries is here.

doi.org/10.1016/S2468-2667(17)30118-4

@ElspethBulgeworthythethird have you ever thought that maybe you've been very lucky? That maybe sadly there really are narcissists around every corner? Far more children have suffered abuse or just extremely toxic environments growing up than you would realise if you luckily didn't experience that yourself.
How is it that your children aren't accusing you of traumatising or abusing them when they watch these videos online and see all this info too? Could it perhaps be simply because they arent being abused but the teens who complain about it actually are for the most part?
Its HARD to claim these things about people who are supposed to love you.

Yes Lottapianos and ValentinaTheVampire you are right, maybe this is just the same old cycle being repeated with new vocabulary?

I’m 30s and I agree.

Theres an awful lot of victimhood now, nothing is ever ‘okay’ it’s either perfect or utterly traumatising and abusive

That maybe sadly there really are narcissists around every corner?

No there are not. Its overused by people who don't understand what it is- along with gaslighting and anxiety.

I blame the internet.

It seems to me that there's a whole swathe of young people who reject the notion of working hard for what you have. They want to be "influencers" and think that the world owes them a living.

The huge sense of self-entitlement and lack of self-awareness. The refusal to go out and get a job - any job - and work their way up. Days and nights spent glued to screens or gaming.

I also agree with previous poster about so many parents infantilising their children and enabling their uselessness.