Entitled Son

[ComfusedFem]

This may be a lot of verbal diarrhoea but here goes. It's been building up for a while so I may ramble so apologies in advance.

I don't really know how much detail to go into to get my point across but I need some hard truths or advice please.

I'm going to try and be factual before I get emotional. My lovely son is 22, he has a pretty well paid job for his age and gradually moving up the career ladder. He has also started a couple of other businesses on his own which are doing well and I always support him, give ideas, take a million packages in etc. I'm proud of his work ethic and he never stops and is so driven. Has a gf and doesn't like partying with his friends much at all. It's all about making money.

However, he seems to be very entitled, I think is the word. We live together in a modest 3 bed new build and he has a younger sibling. He does nothing around the house unless I ask him to, ie empty the dishwasher or take rubbish out. I make all meals and do all cleaning and laundry while I also work part time with a partner who works long shifts. Me and his Dad split when he was about 6 but have managed to maintain a healthy relationship and both families are still in good terms.

Ok, I'll cut to the chase now. He currently pays £150 a month. His room is disgusting and I refuse now to clean it. He expects dinners even if he's not in. I do all his washing. He piles it up behind his door then when I think I'm ontop of it BOOM there ye go. I feel like he's just here and in my way and an irritation. The last straw was tonight.....I have been off work and he said " Have you been actually doing anything to make yourself feel better other than drinking wine"🤣 Which is twice a week. Coming from a 21yr old with no worries or life experience. Or empathy for that matter.

Where have I gone wrong. And what do I do? I'd love your opinions as I'm fed up.

I have a son of the same age. From an early age I have always got him to help around the house. He cleans his own room -- I don't go in there at all. We share the cooking of meals. He does his own washing, or puts his own in the machine and we share a load.
He absolutely knows the value of money. As I was a single parent bringing him up he has always known what the cost of things are and whether I could afford to buy him something or not.

He will help out with anything I ask him to and helps out financially due to the cost of living. If he has a pay rise, he ups what he gives me without question, something I have never asked or expected him to do. Not a huge amount, but it helps and it gives him the understanding of real life.

You are really not doing your son [ or his poor girlfriend ] any favours. I take it he has been sheltered from real life as he was growing up? A lot of it is about respect, and it doesn't sound as though your son has much of that for you.

Jeeze, some of these comments. We are talking about an adult man here. He could be married. Mortgage..children..yet on MN, there would still be comments about still developing, immaturity, etc
He is obviously very money driven, to the point he is happy to exploit those close to him. His mother, his GF. Not nice attractive attributes.

With that attitude, if I were the mother of the GF, I would be telling her about red flags and financial abuse!
I agree with posters saying he needs to pay his way as an adult. I would suggest a spreadsheet, all income and expenditure. Then split cost by the number of adults living there.

Lol, I know. Straight from the MN bingo card.

Mature and developed enough to run businesses and see his girlfriend as a source of income but not to wash his own clothes or understand money. Riiiight!

You let your son talk to you like a piece of dirt. He will treat the woman in his life how he treats you. Nip this in the bud now Tell him his behaviour and attitude towards you is not going to be tolerated and if it carries on he will move out. You are the one providing a roof over his adult head he needs to respect that. Why should you cook dinner for another adult ? No way

This one hundred percent. It is t so much about the money it's the lack of respect he is showing you and kind of man he has grown up to be.

You can solve your problem by telling him to move out. And if you were his gf or wife, that's what I would suggest. A LTB.

But you're his Mum. So first, I think you should explain to him how repugnant and misogynist his attitude is. He treats you with contempt. Washing, cooking and housework are women's jobs, and they are such simple, brainless jobs that they are far, far beneath him.

He has no respect for you. He respects money and those who make the most money and no other way of being is worthy of his notice.

And that is unacceptable.

So, I would absolutely make this a teachable moment.

And then ask him to find his own place to live.

I would say that maybe it's time for him to move out and stand on his own two feet but if he did that he'd get a flat with his girlfriend and expect her to cook, clean etc. If that happened I imagine there'd be the usual thread on here in 5 years time about the 'good dad' who does fuck all.

He's learned that women do all the house work and need to put up with it. I would put good money on the OP doing everything for her partner even if he had a week annual leave (all meals, washing etc). It really needs kicking out of him before he goes out into the real world and the cycle of lazy men expecting women to do everything continues for another generation.

Sit down and chat to him. Tell him there’s some new rules in place as he’s an adult and must contribute with cooking for everyone, doing his own laundry, cleaning the loo, hoovering. Agree which days he can do which task, help him write himself a rota. The clothes washing is not for the rota though, it’s his 100%

if he fails to pull his weight stop cooking for him and stop washing his laundry.

It sounds like you get on well enough with his Dad. I would definitely speak to him and explain that he is likely to get a knock asking to live there. Hopefully his Dad will say that's fine but lau down the same rules. Explain you're worried he is going to be useless forever.

I am a bit shocked at how rubbish he is. My 17 year old cooks once a week for us all, does he's own laundry, washes up every day. I won't mention his vile room but he does bring the dishes down (on pain of death).

@IfOnlyOurEyesSawSouls you have got to joking!?
Your brain not being fully developed doesn't mean that you need to be disrespectful to people and in OPs case WOMEN in their life!
He is taking advantage that his Mother will not confront him as she doesn't want to upset him. He said he would use his girlfriend to pay food bills (like a business transaction).
This MAN doesn't sound like a very nice person at all. I hope his girlfriend sees sense and leave this abusive man

From age 7, I had to help out around the house. Things like setting the table for dinner, helping with the dishes after meals, and I had to tidy my own room.

When I was about 12, I would get paid a small amount of pocket money to do the housework each week.

When I started work, I had to pay 10% of my earnings in rent to my parents - which was 35 years ago and not an awful lot less than your son is paying you now, yet you say he earns well. Does that really cover his costs while living with you?

If you have always done everything for your son, then why is he going to expect it to be any different now? He will probably get married one day and expect his wife to do everything, too, because you have led him to believe that is what women should do.

It's your house, so it's up to you to set the rules about your expectations while he still lives there.

150 pounds. Starr charging double. I used to pay 300 plus council tax

Awww I’m sure he’s not repulsive, this is someone’s young adult son being a bit immature, not a wife beater ffs! I’m sure we all had our moments in our late teens/early 20s.
It’s likely cause he’s never had to go out and fend for himself at uni etc, he’ll learn it all for himself when he takes the leap and moves out. I think a calm discussion about how cost of living has increased and due to this there needs to be a few changes. And you won’t be doing the washing anymore etc - It’ll go how it’ll go, if it goes badly it might be the propelling force that gets him to move out, which may be a good thing for him and his maturity in the long run. He’ll thank you in the end. Best of luck with it!

@ComfusedFem also please stop calling him a boy, from your posts it looks like you are seeing him as this very young and sensitive little boy. When in reality he is a 22 year old MAN!

At 22 (I met my husband at 13) my husband was/is a sensitive, kind and loving man. Respectful at home, respectful to his family, friends and me. Saving for a mortgage and working hard (he was worked since he was 13).
His mother (in the 22 years I've know her) has never gone on like the way you describing your son.
Thank god as she's raised a Man who is a loving husband and dad!

All of this, I pity any future partner because as sure as night follows day he will treat them like dirt. He needs a fucking reality check, putting money ahead of treating people right is not a good character trait. As for the girlfriend if they had a flat she could pay for food. He's only looking at her as a commodity to financially ease his outgoings. Sorry op he's a vile little sod.

Does it help to think it is not doing him any favours by carrying on like this. He needs to become a functioning adult and this is not helping him do that , so it is a bit of tough love he needs. Sit down and have a conversation about how it needs to with you as adults living together. What needs to happen £ wise, food, washing, chores and stick to it. Or if he wants to negotiate more from you then he can pay for that .

Just to say, I have 3 kids, 12, 15 and 18. My 18 year old is in full time education working one full day and 3 evenings a week (the work is temporary, covering an absence in his dad’s business). He doesn’t pay rent, but normally cooks twice a week for me and his sisters. He mostly does his own washing and will ask for mine/his sister’s to make up a full load. I’d prefer his room tidier, but I shut the door on it.

even my 12 year old will put a wash load on.

Sad to say, he’s entitled because you’re fuelling it, although I know how easy it is to get into this habit. He won’t change out of his own accord, you’ll need to initiate this. Unfortunately children don’t morph into fully fledged adults on the stroke of midnight on their eighteenth birthday.

Sit down and haveeagro2n up conversation. Maybe go through a budget planner (see Moneysavingexpert) with him, and cost everything out. Now he’s 21, put his rent up to £200 a month. Lay down sone new ground rules - he cooks at least one meal a week, if you’re out, he tends for himself (even if it’s pizza and oven chips), if he needs washing done, he’s does it.

I have an adult son a similar age. If he’s in, I’ll cook for him. If I’m out, I may tell him what food there available is to cook, and then he’ll sort himself out. I’ll do his washing and ironing as part of the household routine, but if he wants a specific tshirt, then he’ll go and iron it etc.

Does he not want to be an adult? Does he not have any pride?

I'd point out to him that as an adult with his own businesses, he needs to be being an adult at home. And adults have responsibilities.

When mine came home from uni and had jobs, I showed them my monthly budget for bills and food (fortunately for them, I had no mortgage by then). And they paid their share of it as 'rent'.

I had a large dual linen basket on the landing where they put their washing. Rather than be wasteful and have everyone doing their own, I was happy to put our stuff in together, but they did their own if they needed anything in the meantime (and would asm me if I had anything I wanted putting in at the same time).

They helped with shopping, cooking and general chores. Because they were adults. I'd be telling him that he should have a bit more pride and act like an adult and not a child.

He's old enough to vote, get married, have a child, go to war, move to the other side of the world. He's not a child.

The fact he's (superficially) empathic is irrelevant. That's not a bonus. It should be a given. I bet a daughter wouldn't be given bonus points for showing some empathy or listening to someone.

OP he doesn't have empathy for you and he's so far been enabled in not developing that. This means it's likely he'll respond badly to being told he needs to materially up his act. By badly I'm thinking he'll throw a tantrum of sorts. Hold. Your. Ground.

And include in your list for Sunday no food or drinks in his bedroom - it sounds like it's bad in there. Give him the choice of a) he plans, shops for ingredients and cooks for the household twice a week - you choose the set days to be helpful to you or b) he has a cupboard for his food and you do no more cooking for him, including any "could you pick this up at the supermarket for me?" business. He takes responsibility.

Remember that you could rent his room out to a lodger and get a lot more help towards the bills plus almost zero extra work. In a way that's his (hypothetical) competition.

Also worth him noting that many leases won't allow him to run a business from the address. While he's apparently successful with his businesses, he's effectively playing at it because he's not paying to rent an office/location plus the utilities for that (or find a lease that will allow it, or flatmates who don't mind).

Charge him much more rent. Use some of it to get a cleaner. Stop cooking his meals or doing his washing Give him a time frame to move out and stick to it. Tell him to clean his room once a week and inspect it. Impress upon him that if he doesn't step up the time frame for moving out will be much shorter.

This site on Age - appropriate chores might be helpful if he kicks off OP - he's currently possibly at 12yo level but not quite 13+!

Age 13+

Doing their own washing
Washing windows
Preparing meals
Grocery shopping
Replacing light bulbs
Cleaning the cooker or grill
Cleaning their room
Cleaning around the house

Make a list of everything he has to do around the house: his own laundry, cook once or twice per week, etc. Raise his rent to at least £350-400 per month. If you want to, put some of that aside for him and give it to him when he moves out. And tell him 25 will be the cut off point for him living at home, so he needs to start making long term plans to move out.

Speak to him seriously about this, as an adult. He’ll never leave and move on to the next stage in life if you make it too easy for him.

Is he sensitive or does he just react badly when he doesn't get his own way?

Just happened to see this article on How do I parent my disrespectful 19 year old son? from a psychologist and therapist dealing with family relationships.

She has some practical suggestions, and it's worth a read - here's an extract :

There is a saying, “We teach people how to treat us.” Unfortunately, you are reckoning with the fact that you have taught your son that he doesn’t have to listen to you or respect your rules. I see why he is struggling with respecting you, though, because you are giving him mixed signals. First, you call him an adult, but then you are, I assume, letting him live rent free in your home and feeding him. You also often give him use of your car, that I assume you also pay for entirely. It is no wonder he doesn’t know how to act. His adulthood is merely theoretical; there are no consequences for his behavior as there would be if he were a real adult.