Getting baby into daytime sleep routine

[Sappholit]

My baby is nearly 10 weeks and I'd really like her to start having her sleeps at predictable times - ie a lunchtime sleep for two hours would be nice.

How do I go about doing this?!!

Agree with tracey, my DD was BF, and learnt to self-settle (with no tears), and slept through the night at 5 1/2 months. It is possible, and I'm convinced that with DD it was getting the daytime naps right that was the key to it all. Not necessarily the case with all babies, but for us it was all interlinked.

Ach, I'm sure we didn't all mean to be rude and unhelpful.

I think that a lot of people seem to have possibly unrealistic expectations of how a several week old baby will behave.

A 2 hour nap at lunchtime just seemed awfully, well, precise as an aim for a 10 week old!

I think I meant to emphasise that a)you don't need to force a routine, it might happen itself to an extent and b)it might not work anyway.

It seems easier to me to wait and see how they develop their own routine/pattern over the first few months at least by watching when they seem tired etc. This seems less stressful to me that putting them down for naps at set times , only for them to cry and get worked up.

I agree that my original reply didn't really answer the question well at all.

Best of luck with your wee one...

it's not just me who says babies need nurturing, not structuring!!

" I subscribe to the school of thought that says babies feel more secure when they know what's happening and what's coming next. "

Yes, so does The Childless Baby Guru, it's all very well subscribing to a school of thought, if you have evidence or experience to base it on. You asked for advice on getting a 10 week old baby into a sleep routine, lots of people have given just that, based on evidence and experience, and explained that your expectations are a little unrealistic. At this age all your baby needs to know is that you're there. She can't read a baby instruction book and has no concept of time, she works entirely on instinct. Perhaps you could follow her lead?

That's my advice, based on evidence and experience. Feel free to ignore it and consult a book/clock if that's what you are really determined to do.

Op - out of interest did you find the link to 31 ways to help your baby sleep of interest?

I am with Greenmonkies on the baby trainers - I always think that you know your baby best.

One tip that might of helped us was that we have lots of places that our baby could snooze - so basically the baby goes down anywhere now.

We also cuddle and hold our baby lots and I am sure that for our baby this helps with sleeping and minimising crying.

well it is good to know that every baby is soundly sleeping out in dreamland...

I think that link to 31 ways.. is really good.

I don't want to fuel the flames but there are over 100 posts on this thread, and the OP is calling everyone a nest of vipers??? I think that attitude is quite rude. If you post a thread and people disagree with you and each other but justify it, then surely that's the whole point of posting on MN and not just reaching for the nearest book.

I'd be so grateful about everyone sharing experiences as it's a scary and confusing time. And you've been here over a year - not really that new.

OP - I hope you don't leave just because of this thread. If it makes you feel any better, I just read the whole thread and was AMAZED that I managed to get to page 3 before the anti-routine onslaught began. Surely this is a record!

Good luck wih establishing a routine. I swore by the Baby Whisperer for DD, and it suited her perfectly. It was however totally useless for DS for some reason (his routine ended up being the FRSR one - Fitting Round School Run!).

Good luck - and if your DD does achieve a 2 hour afternoon sleep - make sure you catch up on some zzzzzz's yourself!

Waking up at 7am works a treat, we didnt have much else structured but that alone made everything fall into place.

I apologise for my comment.

Greenmonkies, perhaps I was a little too brief in my opening post. I do believe that a gentle routine can help and I would like there to be some predictability to my and my baby's day. I don't believe that structure and nurturing are mutually exclusive. The fact that I want to encourage my baby to have daytime sleeps - which she won't take if left to her own devices, which makes her overtired and cranky and is not good for her - doesn't mean that I am not nurturing her! I have never, ever left my baby to cry, and nor would I. I recognise that controlled crying works for some families, but have always known it will never work for me.

All I was looking for was a bit of advice on how to help my baby settle into some kind of sleep routine. I didn't mean that I was going to force her into some rigid schedule and leave her to scream for hours.

I have just read that most babies my daughter's age can't stay awake for longer than two hours, and so that is working for us now, as it gives me the confidence to understand when she is tired and to realise that just because she doesn't fall asleep straight away, doesn't mean I should give up trying to settle her.

That was all I was looking for. I'm sorry if I gave you the impression that I was going to abandon my baby to the crib and leave her in distress. That is something I would never do.

That's interesting about Penelope Leach greenmonkies. I've always liked her and found her books helpful.

I do think that, while relevant, that Times article is a bit extreme though in the context of the OP asking for advice on routine. I have never ever left DD to cry, if I had needed to to so in order to establish a routine there is no way I would have done it. Routine does not always involve leaving a baby to cry.

And in reference to GF - I did read her book, I don't remember anything in there about Controlled Crying (or indeed anything about HOW to get a baby to sleep). Does she really advocate this or is that myth?

Well GF definitely makes reference to CC in one of her case studies I read yesterday. It was about a 5 month old with sleep 'problems'. I didn't even like the tone of the case study, never mind the actual method used.

First 2 babies we're like something from the exorcist when it came to sleeping- didn't sleep thro til 9 months. Late arrival number 3 now 3 1/2 months cat naps after each feed for about half an hour to an hour, and at around 8pm we have bath, bottle and bed. He then sleeps until about 5am, has another feed then goes til around 8. I think every baby is different. He was a better sleeper than the others from the outset, and he grizzles when tired, so it's easy to tell. I only put him in his pram during the day, then into the amby nest at night with soothing music on really low on the radio. Seems to work a treat. I think a good bedtime routine is the only thing you need to try and establish, as the sleeping during the day is a phase that gets less and less.

i know this isn't supposed to be a gf thread but she is silent on what to do if your baby is hungry an hour before he's supposed to be or tired before he's supposed to be. i would love it if my lo could follow her routines but so at 3 months he is only just eating like her 2-4 week olds and staying up for as long as he 'should' and has managed 1 2 hour nap and that was with a serious amount of pram jiggling from me at exactly the right time which is why i assume that some crying is implicit if you want your baby to try what she's proposing.actually doesn't she operate a shut the door and leave them policy for bedtime?

ANYWAY i, like the op would love some structure,so i am feeding at 7 every morning and aiming for 7 bedtime tho this depends on the time of the last nap. i am also trying to get the naps in at the right time tirednesswise and trying for a longer one at lunch because i have to start getting some work done. not sure one CAN do much more than that without tears tbh...

would be very interested to know if those who do a perfect gina g or EASY got there with ease or with pain. if it's the former then i would respectfully suggest you got lucky with your bambino or your pit glands!!
hopethis makes sense. am typing with the left as feedingwith the right

Sappholit,

I also apologise if I came across as stroppy. I see some really awful attitudes to babies in my work (last week I heard a mother tell her 4 week old baby she was "annoying" because she was spitting her dummy out and crying in her pram. I had earlier seen her feeding the baby without taking her out of the pram. ) and this is a bit of a trigger subject for me.

The long and the short of it is that if you learn about the needs and natural rhythms of your baby you will be able to predict what she is likely to want next, without a "routine" as such. Watch for feeding and tired cues; crying is the last feeding cue, mouthing, tongue pocking out, grunting, arm & leg waving are all feeding cues, if you respond to these you'll have a much more contented happier baby than if you wait til she's crying. The same with tiredness. The majority of babies feed off to sleep at this age, it's normal, natural and not something you should worry about. Don't forget that feeding is everything to a tiny baby, calories, fluids, security, comfort. (which is why the sight of a baby in a pram being given a bottle without being held and cuddled really makes me sad) Babies all have tired cues too, grizzling, head scratching, ear pulling, eye rubbing, yawning, all are sleep cues, if you rock, feed or put your baby in a sling when you see these she'll almost certainly nod off.

Just don't stress about the little things. Life will never be as simple and predictable as it was Before Baby, it's a nasty vicious myth that things ever get Back To Normal, or that you Get Your Old Life back. You don't. You are now a Mother, and your life is different. Embrace this change and find a way to do the things that matter (like cooking, shopping, eating, washing) and allow your priorities to change. Right now you are still in the period of adjustment, the first 2 or 3 months are chaos, she'll have a big growth spurt in a week or so and you'll think your milk has run out and that there's something wrong, but all you have to do is go with the flow and feed her on demand (which will be almost every 20 minutes ) and in a few days things will calm down a bit and you'll feel like you've sussed it. But don't try to predict too much, wait and see what each day brings you and react to each change as it happens. You and your baby will both be happier for it.

Great post Greenmonkies. The thing about babies is that they change fast and often. A 2 week old is very different from a 12 week old. The problem with routines in the early days is that you need to be readjusting them often. It can be frustrating and wearing to never quite get it right.

Your baby hasn't been born before. Nobody has written a book about your baby, and if they had then your baby won't have read it.

i havent followed any book but did try to encourage ds to sleep without having to have a full tummy so he didnt rely on feelng full to sleep. so i suppose i ended up doing the baby whisperer type routine....in the early days we swaddled but ds wont allow it now. the only predictable naps are after breakfast when taking dd to school and about 3pm when picking her up. i find it depends on what we are doing and where we are going....if ds has been active or chilling etc!!!

he is 20 weeks and we get between 3 and 4 hours sleep a day and 11 - 12 at night!!!

dont read books ..... but try pick up on the need to sleep cues!!!!

I followed Gina Ford too, only really for the nap times and I really wish I had started it earlier. Gettting a few daytime naps plus sleeping 7 til 7. Would thoroughly recommend to anyone.

Can i say it would be great if we could all 'follow the cues and find the 'rhythm' but it is really hard for some of us ( don't know why but guess we are all different and it can lead to a very depressed and over anxious mum and baby) and so a little guidance and some good tips and ideas, really really help. i was desperately trying to read my LO and was obviously rubbish at figuring it all out!

i was trying so hard for the first couple of months to go with it, but i found having a over tired crying baby ( and mother!) all afternoon, each day wasn't working!! i was all over the place. we are each different and lots of my friends have been able to 'go with it' and some of us need more support and 'help'.

dip into some reading. and then see what works for your baby. i found the 2 hour tired thing so invaluable too. as you get to know your baby better, you do start to see the cues too. which helps no end!

i couldnt spot the cues with my dd so i had to sort of make a routine up. ds is easier to spot..... if i lie him in my arms and pop his dummy in and his eyes fall back and his eyelids start to close i know its sleeptime. he is 4 months and is usually only awake for 2 hours at a time!

oh God all these people waking babies up at 7am...even when you have hardly slept all night....for real????...can you be serious? Best thing I found was pram walks when I wanted them to sleep - as soon as they were out the door we had sleep...and in those long,freezing weeks of December, Jan and feb when my twins were 3,4,5 months old they would have morning naps and afternoon naps - its important that you get a life too - like with company so if you have to fit their sleep around the chance to visit friends (change of scene) then take it every once in a while.....at that point you are getting a bit stressed in my experience so dont risk a social life for sleep training....rigid routine or not - they kids find their pattern - and as someone said every age /development change brings an adjustment - we have just hit weaning and its all gone bonkers

By the time No 3 came along (20yrs between 1st and last child!) I would like to think I am older and wiser (definitely older ). Before he arrived, when large and tired I made a mental list of all the things that absolutely had to be done each day, and made a mental note of some that should be done / would like to get done. Now that's my only goal. If he's up, dressed, changed, fed and I've got through the MUST list by lunchtime, I can give myself a pat on the back. This is easier if there's someone else around of course, which isn't often. The rest just has to wait. This way if he's not sleeping much one day / has just had his jabs etc, the pressure is off. I don't get stressed about what needs doing, because it can wait. Keep one room presentable for unexpected visitors and remind yourself that you are probably the only person in your household who would have got ANYTHING done whilst looking after a baby. (By the way, I haen't brushed my teeth yet today . As he's just nodded off in the pram, that's next on my 'should to get done' list!