That man showed me his willy....

[handlemecarefully]

My 2.11 yr old dd just casually announced this on our journey home from Nursery. The man she was referring to works there and has been there for 4-5 weeks.

What next? Not sure whether I should say something to the Nursery Manager because this could be complete fabrication on my dd's part (she does say misleading and inaccurate things sometimes)...and if I say something and he is completely blameless?

At the time I said to her "Did he? If he did that's very naughty. If he does it again you must tell him 'no', and go and tell one of the ladies straight away" (she refers to the predominantly female staff at the Nursery as 'ladies')

DD has been showing no sings of 'sexualised behaviour'. She is interested in 'willies' of both genders - but no more so than any other child her age. She did mention the other day that one of the other little girls had shown dd her bottom....

Should I say anything to the Nursery Manager. If yes - that what and how?

I think i'd want him to be spoken to tbh, i know that 3 year olds can make up stories but if my ds ever came home and said somethinglike that i would want to protect him in everyway possible, to make damm sure that it could never ever happen. but saying that ive never been in that position

xxxx

children of this age certainly can make things up! My ds told me about all sorts of naughty things he did at nursery (pouring water on other children's lunches) which were completely made up - the loon. I was getting cross with him, going in the next day to say sorry to the staff only to have them look at me in complete bafflement. He wanted to do the naughty things because he thinks being naughty is thrilling, but they only happened in his head.
I also think that if she did make up a story that someone showed her his willy she would almost certainly have no idea that it was sexual or of the pontential consequences.
Of course she may have been telling the truth, but I suspect you know your dd very well, and I think personally you did the right thing - as long as this person is supervised very closely in future.

Hi Handle Me Carefully, How did it go?

see below anna

I think you might also casually tell your dd that it's OK to tell you anything that happens to her and that she must tell you if a grown up ever asks her to keep a secret (mind you, that will include your nursery Mother's Day card!). Usual stuff.
Oh, it's horrible to even think about, isn't it?

She was quite calm about it. She did say that she has not seen anything unusual in his demeanour, and that he is liked by the children.

She probably thinks I am barking mad because I have been in tears in her office before about baby ds (15 months)- because I thought that he wasn't enjoying Nursery as he was getting very distressed when I was dropping him off in the morning.

Plus I asked her the other day whether dd was popular with the other children because dd had said that some of the kids had told her they weren't her friend anymore. She looked at me uncomprehendingly at that point and told me how popular dd is.

Nursery Manager probably thinks I'm over-reacting.

Although to be fair to her she didn't make me feel this way when I spoke to her about this incident

Oh I'm sure she doesn't think you are mad! If crying because your child is upset at nursery makes you mad, she must think half the mothers there are loonies.

yes hmc, I think every mother has that paranoia, I know I did.
As I said, I think you've done the right thing to say something and also to trust your gut instinct. .

Thanks Aloha,

Yes I don't think dd would understand any sexual implications and she wouldn't appreciate that it would be serious to make something like that up....

She had also told me before that various nursery staff have smacked her (very unlikely) and called her fat (very unlikely because she's quite lean, and they wouldn't abuse like that anyway!)

I will continue to reinforce that she can tell me whatever she wants to and on any subject that she likes, and that if she is ever unsure about something that she can tell me

I think you did the right thing - and if the nursery stick to all their proceedures then there should be no opportunity for this anyway (that was one of my thoughts when I read your first post). To help put your mind at rest I think it would be entirely reasonable for you to ask for concrete evidence that they are NEVER falling short on their ratios (it does happen, as we all know) and maybe even ask for written details of the extra steps they propose in order to be vigilant - they could provide you with this in writing without writing down the actual allegation iyswim. Maybe you could ask for a follow-up meeting in a month? The other thing I would do would be to find myself a book, or advice from a relevant organization, which provides information on how children this age respond, so that you yourself can keep an eye on her and see if any of her behaviour indicates that something might be going on. (and you could discuss this with the nursery, though technically they should be trained in this I would have thought). It would be worrying and agonising to symptom-spot like this, whilst trying to carry on as normal, but I think it's what I would do.

and thanks Katierocket and everybody else. It's been good to have my hand held through this today.

NO! You are not over reacting on this.

dh is a governor at a school and there was some suspicious activity from a male member of staff, well he wasn't actually staff just a sort of non-parent helper who managed to befriend all the staff who thought he was wonderful and helped out at the school discos and fetes etc. He then somehow became the unofficial photogrpaher on school trips and would go round to the kids' houses to give them the photos. It all got a bit suss and he was challenged about it by the Head. He quickly resigned so it was felt he probably had something to hide. I don't know if there was an official investigation into anything.

My point is, that perhaps something should be said to this man. If he is innocent fair enough. But at the very least he should be aware of child protection procedures when supervising taking the kids to the toilet and being alone with them. This is as much for his own protection as for the children.

I'm going to sleep on it QueenE re the man being approached over it. You are making sense but I need to mull over it....

Good advice Hatstand - I will do some research into the 'signs and symptoms'

You have done the right thing so far. It must've been really hard to face the leadeer with something like that.

You mull it over, talk it over with your dh or a friend and see how you feel tomorrow. You will have new thoughts about it and things will look in a better/different perspective tomorrow.

Have just remembered you can get books for young children about how to stay safe...I will do some digging. One thing would be to make your dd aware of her own body and who is allowed to touch (ie doctor with mummy present) and when etc.

All good advice from QE.

The thing that surprised me was the leaders reaction. Of course there is nothing unusual in his demeanor! It sounds like she doesn't know anything about paedophiles behavior. He wouldn't come in and fondle some kid he has just met - thats not how they work/get away with it. He would come in, win over the children, become trusted by staff and parents and then start to abuse. Then the children don't like to say anything because they are confused & like him & even if they do the parents aren't sure because he is nice and the staff can't believe it because they know and trust him. This is exactly how paedophiles get away with abusing ?90 children before being reported.

I'm not saying he is a paedophile or this incident definately happened - but I am saying that the leader should have better procedures in place than 'i'll keep an eye on him'!

I know this must be really horrible for you and your daughter HMC and hope you get through it OK - I also thought that Caligula made a very good point earlier.

Talking of signs and symptoms the young girl of a family we were friends with as children was systematically abused by another of their friends - he was a teacher at their school. This happened for a number of years and although she became shy they thought it was 'growing up' (it started when she was 7/8 and continued til she was about 12). The only way they found out was because she had a really strange disease that came out of nowhere and meant her bones were literally breaking through the skin (growing strangely) and they couldn't figure out what it was. When they finally found out what had happened to her and the bloke was prosecuted and sent to prison her disease disappeared and never returned. Really odd.

BTW his wife attacked the girls mum saying 'thanks for ruining his career - we are adults and could have sorted this out between us' ffs. Unbelievable.

re: starrynights point - that's why I originally asked how the manager reacted hmc. This kind of thing is such a big deal to nurseries that I expected her to be quite serious about it all.

So do you think the Nursery Manager hasn't taken this seriously enough then?

Re QueenE's suggested books, I did buy a couple of books off Amazon after my original thread re her grandpa..."My Body is Private" and another title I can't recall.

A friend of mine suggested I shouldn't read them to dd, as she is "too young" and they would frighten / alarm her..or possibly put the power of suggestion into her.

I've read them once or twice but been put off reading them more frequently by my friend's advice.

What do you think? To read or not to read?

BTW I will think I will write my thoughts down about this alleged incident and send them to the Nursery Manager asking her to log them as a file note...

Right I have dug the book out. It's called "Feeling safe, feeling happy" by Michelle Elliott. It covers Feeling safe, Getting lost, Saying No, Bullies, Someone You Don't Know, Touching and Secrets. It's a Home Office publication and I think I was given it to read to foster kids. I don't think it is actually one you can buy, it was issued iyswim.

It's written in a low-key reassuring way. At not quite 3 however, I'm not sure if it may be a little old for your dd. However, it has notes to parents/carers as well and you could adapt the stories to suit her level of understanding. It also has lots of colourful pictures with children doing the things it is talking about.

I could photo copy it in colour and send it to you if you want?

As well as touching, if she is making it up, don't u also need to deal with the issue of telling stories? my dd also has a habit of making up stories, which got out of hand last week when I ended up with social services and the police interviewing me for an hour. I'm now somehow trying to get dd to tell the truth but aso be able to talk to me if anythign did happen.

I think that the current action by the nursery manager is right. I assume that there have been no similar warnings from parents. He'll be watched closely from now on and, tbh, I think it is better that he doesn't know there are any suspicions hanging over him - 1) if he's innocent he will be mortified that soneone could think this of himand 2) if he's not he will get more devious in hiding things. If he's guilty and believes no one suspects, he won't be wary and get more secretive.

As things stand, people are alert to the possibility and it's been flagged as a potential problem.

From working ina nursery I think you should get this documented on the basis that if anyone else complained then there is a record of it. It only needs to be seen by you and the manager or CP representative. This is to protect all of you.

As a word of caution, although this worker should not be left alone with the children, there are instances when this could occur, eg if there are minimum number of staff working, one has to helpa child with something while another is busy doing something else, maybe another child id desperate to got o the loo, it could happen that the unqualified has to take a single child somewhere. I am not saying it does, but that it could.

Th manger should be taking this very seriously.