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Good vs bad mothers - warning, disturbing content

117 replies

TheMysticMasseuse · 23/07/2009 21:31

I have seen this on another forum, and thought it's something mnetters may like:

Good Vs. Bad Mothering

I have been thinking a lot lately about this whole mothering thing. This somehow
sacred ideal that there is a perfect way to mother, and that women who deviate
from this method are somehow inferior.

No matter what your taste, you can read a study or a book by a self-proclaimed
expert who will back you up. Want to Attachment Parent? Read this book! Want to
CIO? Read this book! Want to use cloth diapers? Read this study! Want to use a
bottle? Here's what this doctor says!

The Latest Studies show. Talk about a phrase that should be removed from all
languages. 30 years ago The Latest Studies showed that bottle-feeding and
starting solids at 3 weeks and using disposable diapers was the best way to
raise your child. Today, The Latest Studies show that breastfeeding and starting
solids after 9 months and using cloth diapers are the best way to raise your
child. The Latest Studies don't ever agree with each other, because if they did,
there would be no more money given out to actually do studies, and there would
be no money made in writing books.

Most of us survive childhood intact. Sure, we bitch. Sure we trot out our
parents' mistakes and brandish them with a vengeance as proof of our suffering.
Sure we rant and rave, promising ourselves and anyone else that listens that we
will be different, that we will never be the same kind of mother as our own
second-rate one.

And yes, there is such a thing as bad mothering.

But.

Bad mothering is not using disposable diapers. Bad mothering is not using
bottles and formula. Bad mothering is not putting a baby into a crib and letting
the baby cry until she learns to sleep on her own. Bad mothering is not giving
the baby a cookie to just shut up her whining, already.

Nor is bad mothering using cloth diapers. Or breastfeeding until the baby is 4.
Or letting the baby sleep in bed with her parents, even while they make love. Or
feeding the baby a vegetarian diet.

There are women out there who are bad mothers. There are mothers shooting up
while their children die of starvation and neglect in the next room. There are
mothers out there who stuff a pillow over their heads so they don't have to
listen to the whimpers from their 8 year olds while their fathers sodomize them.
There are mothers out there who abandon their children on the street because
they no longer wish to care for them. There are women who slowly twist their
children's limbs until they snap while their children cry and beg, promising to
be good.

Bad mothers.

Yes.

But most of us are not.

At some point along the line, women in the Western world stopped trusting their
instincts. We began to listen to doctors. We eagerly read studies and books that
would confirm to us that yes, we were good mothers!

And worse, we began to betray each other. We began to gather in camps, and we
set up rules for what constituted good mothering. And any mother who strayed
outside those rules was a bad mother. We'd sit together over tea and discuss in
outraged tones the ignorant woman down the street who bottle-fed her child from
birth, smugly asserting our superiority in breastfeeding our own children for
years. We'd converse over a power lunch about the poor deluded woman who quit
her high-profile job so she could stay home and finger-paint, rolling our eyes
and congratulating ourselves on our excellent luck in nannies. We'd snipe over
email and on message boards, on blogs and over the phone.

Look at me! I am a better mother! And I can prove it to you by surrounding
myself with other mothers who think just like me! I can prove it by shoving
these books in your face! I can prove it by demeaning other mothers who have
made different choices than mine!

Why are we doing this?

Why can't we feel confident in our own mothering choices? Why do we feel such a
need to prove ourselves through book after book and scorn directed towards other
mothers?

Ask yourself, and be honest. When was the last time you criticized another
mother in your mind? Was it today? Was it yesterday?

The next time you hear yourself making a nasty comment about another
mother?stop. Just stop. And ask yourself ? is she really a bad mother? Does she
abuse her child? Does she neglect her child? Co-sleeping is not abuse.
Bottle-feeding is not neglect. Think about what is coming out of your mouth.

Do not diminish the pain of a child who sleeps chained in a closet, ribs cracked
from her latest beating by equating her to a child who has learned to sleep by
crying it out for a few nights in her crib. Do not diminish the pain of a child
who has been sexually abused by equating her to a child that sleeps peacefully
between her loving parents. Do not diminish the pain of a child who has not
eaten for days by equating her to a child who is not fed meat or who drinks
formula.

We are the none of us perfect. None of us are. And we will all make mistakes. We
will learn, we will revise our thinking; we will throw up our hands and let go
of a long cherished ideal because we have just got to do it or collapse.

So how about instead of attacking other mothers, we start feeling confident
about ourselves? How about we look to our own children instead of spending time
self-righteously judging everyone else's? Throw away your parenting books. Think
about what your doctor tells you and evaluate what it means. When other mothers
criticize you, shake it off and ignore the temptation to turn around and attack
back.

Let's try supporting each other for a change. I think it would make all of us
better mothers to do so.

OP posts:
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RumourOfAHurricane · 24/07/2009 11:41

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

Stayingsunnygirl · 24/07/2009 12:06

Yes, the decisions we make during childrearing do have consequences, but I believe that what the OP is trying to convey is the fact that most parents make the decisions they make for the best reasons and out of love of their child, and that someone making a different parenting decision to someone else is not evil incarnate or being wickedly and deliberately neglectful.

We need to learn to appreciate that people have different circumstances and needs and families, so may well make different decisions, but that different isn't necessarily wrong.

Yes, we should advocate for what we believe to be best practice, and discuss the benefits and drawbacks of the different options, but it should be possible to do this in a supportive and caring way, without feeling the need to criticise another parent so harshly for their decision.

OrmIrian · 24/07/2009 12:16

And the other things to bear in mind is that there is a huge amount of snobbery involved in the judgement we make on other people's child-rearing practices. Grubby children in clothes that we personally don't like are not neccessarily being poorly brought up. Food from Iceland is not neccessarily any worse nutrionally than food from Waitrose. And no child ever suffered from being fed veg from one rather than the other.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about these subjects:

clemette · 24/07/2009 13:52

I'm afraid I don't agree. It is too simplistic to say that because you don't beat/rape your kids then you are a "good" parent. It is important to be open to new ideas so you can learn the skills of parenting - that is why MN is important.

I think the opening post is unnecessarily graphic and not at all helpful. But maybe that's just me.

oneopinionatedmother · 24/07/2009 14:06

well, i've never read a parenting book (GINA FORDS CONTENTED BABY BEING IN MY VIEW, MORE OF A PAMPHLET, and an easily discarded one at that..)

we argue because well, these things are important to us. I am very passionate about breast feeding eg but no, i don't think not doing it makes you a bad mother.

Obviously myself and Theprovinciallady should meet each other after school for a scrap, cos I do think cio is ok :P

bad mothers are as described - though i would add psychological bullying it is alot harder to define.

In my mind the minumum qualification is to love them, and show that love.

also felt sick and wanted to cry when i read this last night, just as well I'm not particularly hormonal today...

oneopinionatedmother · 24/07/2009 14:09

i think the shock tactic highlights the vast gap between the truly appalling conditions some poor mites live in against the rather more mundane parenting squabbles we have here (where often we compare smacks with beatings, cio with abandonment etc - there really isn't any comparison)

tummytickler · 24/07/2009 14:19

What is CIO?
Have to dash will write a proper response in a bit!

MilaMae · 24/07/2009 15:28

Clemette I think you've missed the point totally.

None of us 'need' Mumsnet. My mother,her mother and generations before managed to mother beautifully without the Net books or anything else. My mother often despairs of me and my generation of mothers for this very reason.

Mothers today seemed to have lost all confidence and the ability to mother by instinct. I don''t think this is healthy or good, increases stress and can at times take a lot of enjoyment out of the whole experience.

I don't think it's important to be open to new ideas at all. Nobody knows my children or me better than myself. New ideas from books or the Net are not necessary for me to be a good parent.

I love Mumsnet but I don't 'need' it far from it, I just enjoy it. I have turned to books in the past some have helped me some haven't but only I know what is useful for me and mine and what isn't. It's my choice to decide if I wish to access said books or not. At the end of the day nobody knows me,my children or my situation better than myself. I have no right to insist others follow my path of parenting,choice of books etc as others kids,lives,personalities are all different.

Personally I know I read far too much in the early years,I've since learnt to blank out the bulk of guilt mongering crap you read and just focus on snipets of info I need to make life easier and that which I seek for myself. Unfortunately I think new mums are very vulnerable and it takes a while to master this by which time you've wasted valuable time focusing on things not helpful or relevant when you could have just enjoyed your own choices and motherdom.

I also think if you love your kids,keep them warm and fed and secure most of the time you are a 'good' parent. There isn't a single person here who isn't going to stuff up at times. Believe it or not even being a perfect parent is not a good thing imho. Kids need to know we all have flaws,make mistakes and that it's ok for them to do the same. Kids floating around in a bubble of perfectdom are going to get a huge awakening when they enter the real world.

Many thanks Mystic wish I'd read this years ago.

OrmIrian · 24/07/2009 15:55

What mila said.

And that doesn't mean that you can't pick up new methods and learn new ways of doing things - just that it isn't worth the angst and judging of others that parenting as 'A Job' seems to cause. All the experts can't be right if they advocate different approaches - therefore you have to make your own judgements in a way whether with the help of the experts or without.

TheProvincialLady · 24/07/2009 16:05

Oh dear oneopinionatedmummy I get the impression you are much harder than me, so I will capitulate and agree with you that CIO is the best!

Noonki · 24/07/2009 16:08

I whole heartedly agree but part of me reakons that a fear of being judged is one of the many ways society is created and improved upon.

even the worst parents generally dont intend to be monsters. And far more would be if it were not for what society expects of them iyswim.

So though judging can belittle parents believe in their own capibilites it also can prevent us from acting on impulses (such as wanting to smack a really annoying child). and though a fear of being judged isnt the sole reason not to smack at the point it will be one of the things that hold us back.

piscesmoon · 24/07/2009 16:50

I agree entirely with Mila.
I also think that the 'perfect mother' (if there could be such a thing) would be horrible to live with!

clemette · 24/07/2009 18:04

"Clemette I think you've missed the point totally. None of us 'need' Mumsnet. My mother,her mother and generations before managed to mother beautifully without the Net books or anything else."
That's historically inaccurate I am afraid. Parenting manuals have ben available for over four hundred years and many thousands of women read them. For your mother's generation there was Spock, before that, of course there was Truby King etc etc.
Also, for those who didn't access the written word, mothers raised their children with much closer family support (often on the same street/in the same house).
In the 1950s, when this was beginning to diminish with slum clearance there was an explosion in the women's magazine market. Mothering by instinct was not always to be relied on.

I don't agree that as long as you parent "with love" then your children will be OK. For example many parents of my parents generation used smacking as punishment. This is not OK even though no doubt most of them loved their children.

"I don't think it's important to be open to new ideas at all. Nobody knows my children or me better than myself. New ideas from books or the Net are not necessary for me to be a good parent."
I think it takes a special type of arrogance to think you have nothing to learn about the most important job in the world.

BonsoirAnna · 24/07/2009 18:06

MilaMae - have you heard of education?

zebramummy · 24/07/2009 20:21

ummm .... i can see where this is coming from and i applaud your sincerity but it is a sermon more than anything else - i think we should acknowledge that some parenting choices are objectively harder to implement than others and let the people who choose the harder option feel a bit smug about this. i am not really into 'sitting on the fence' as a matter of policy.

mamalovesmojitos · 24/07/2009 20:27

excellent post.

Portofino · 24/07/2009 20:45

I can totally see the point of the OP. look at many threads on MN and people are getting so stressed about minor things.

To me the key things are: keep dcs clean, feed them, clothe them and most importantly LOVE them and consider THEIR needs when you make decisions about your life.

All the rest is a matter of personal preference.

piscesmoon · 25/07/2009 06:59

My DS was seriously ill in hospital when he was 6 yrs (happily made a complete recovery) and I resolved then never to worry about the trivial. I don't always succeed but it helped to put things into perspective. Health is the main thing because anything else can be put right. A child needs unconditional love and security and the rest is unimportant.
I think that mothers should trust their instincts. I agree with Mila, I know my DCs better than anyone else and I can't see why someone who happens to have written a book should be better. I am quite happy to read them and take a bit here and there that suits me, but would never base my parenting on it. I am very cynical, but I would want to see the parents of the 'experts' first and would discount it if they haven't got any.
I had lots of theories before I had DCs!

PrincessToadstool · 25/07/2009 07:07

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

nooka · 25/07/2009 07:18

I used to work quite closely with children's services, and many of my colleagues had seen terrible sights. I don't however find thinking about terrible parents (and why is this a mother thing again) in any way useful when I am thinking about my own children and my own behaviour. In fact reading reports about abuse gives me nightmares, so unless professionally necessary I don't. What is there to be gained? I don't congratulate myself or think there but for the grace go I, because it just isn't true. I think this is a real straw man argument.

I find comparing myself to other parents who I meet or converse with much more helpful for challenging my assumptions, and a very useful thing that is too. I can still be perfectly confident and think there are things I can do differently. I'm not into reading some 'guru' because they generally spout unsubstantiated opinions (and have done for ever in one guise or another) but reading research and reflecting on other's expereinces is what I do in every other sphere of my life, so why not in my parenting?

belgo · 25/07/2009 07:27

I agree nooka. I reminds me of when I complain about dh to my mum - you know, just little complaints that we all need to get off our chest- and she replies with something like 'well you can't complain, at least he doesn't go out every night get drunk and then beat you'.

It just misses the point entirely!

purepurple · 25/07/2009 07:34

What an over-simplistic, gushing, americanised load of rubbish.

piscesmoon · 25/07/2009 10:02

I think it is just making the point that parents shouldn't be too hard on themselves! Most are trying to do their best. A lot of things that people get so argumentative on mumsnet are completely unimportant! There is no right or wrong way to parent.

Stayingsunnygirl · 25/07/2009 13:21

Spot on, picesmoon.

MilaMae · 25/07/2009 17:27

Bloody hell so now mothers who are confident in their ability to mother are 'arrogant' !!! That is so sad that mothers of today should feel that is the case.

As Pieces said the op is only trying to get us all to ourselves a break,why the animosity?

So I'm arrogant because I don't feel the need to read countless books,articles,new research(which is constantly evolving and changing anyway)and modify my parenting accordingly.

When was it decided that this is the way to parent? I know my dc better than any researcher or author. I carried them and have been with them more than any other human on the planet. Don't I know best then? I feel I'm actually doing a pretty good job as it happens. Is that not ok then? What exactly am I supposed to be doing that I'm not?

I never said I have nothing to learn about parenting just that I don't need a constant stream of new ideas of styles of parenting to be a good parent

When parenting issues crop up as I said previous I access the occasional books(not so much books these days) or posts of my choice. I pick and choose,some I use some I don't. I go out and look for info that is relevant to me that is useful to me and mine. I learn from my dc as lets face it they can teach me far more than a text book child.

I shut my ears to pretty much most of the constant stream of new research and ideas shoved in my face by the media et al. I can see my dc are healthy,happy and thriving so nothing more is needed and this approach is obviously working. I'm not aiming to be perfect or to produce perfect offspring just happy,healthy likeable adults. I would also like to be a happy,confident mum.

Raising kids isn't exactly rocket science,when did it become so complicated? My dp is the most lovely kind,gentle daddy a kid could wish for. He's never logged on to Mumsnet or read a parenting book,he doesn't constantly analyze his every parenting move holding it up to new research. Is he arrogant too? We both learn from our dc which is as it should be. Most of the best mums I know,the ones I most admire most have never even been on Mumsnet either let alone read a parenting book. I'm guessing they must be arrogant too?

As Pieces said it's horses for courses and no way is the right way. We all have different personalities,dc and circumstances. 1 size does not fit all so why try and force mothers into parenting styles that doesn't suit them or their dc? In accordance with the op it saddens me when authors and mums who do read said books,research etc or who do follow certain styles of parenting criticize and judge those of us who don't follow suit. I don't judge you so please don't judge me. Actually I think it takes "a special kind or arrogance" to insist your way is the right way regardless of the fact you've never met or will ever meet my children or me and don't know my circumstances.

Clemette as it happens mothers in past generations didn't always have a constant support system. My mother even in the 60s had no fridge or washing machine and often lived miles from shops. Her day was spent shopping for perishables,washing nappies and preparing food. She had very little time to play with us let alone chat to a support system for parenting tips. She didn't have toddler groups or pre-schools to chat with other mums. Being a mum could be very lonely. She didn't have a constant stream of info and advice on the correct way to do things but she still managed to do a pretty good job as did many others and many still do.

My mother did read Spock and like many of her friends binned it. She didn't go searching for yet more books or articles to digest and compare her parenting to. In those days mothers had the confidence to rely more on their own instincts. I wish it was deemed ok to do that today. Unlike mothers in the past. I fear many mothers today will look back and remember their kids childhood as one long guiltfest,a time of total insecurity. I'm not totally void of guilt myself but since acknowledging that I do a pretty good job and ignoring info just not relevant or important I feel a lot less guilt and stress as a parent. I'm striving to improve on that further.

Bonsoir yes I have heard of education. I was a primary teacher for several years. As a teacher you have to be open to every newfangled piece of research or approach to teaching, it's part of the job description. This didn't stop it becoming rather tiresome as every 'new' approach came back round on the roundabout only to be eventually discounted. Maybe this is why I regard every new piece of 'research' we as parents get bombarded with sceptically.

I learnt more from the children I taught than I read in any article or textbook. Happily although I miss teaching I'm no longer in the job so don't have have to constantly read up on new theories or research. My way is the path I now choose to concentrate on and follow. I try to acknowledge my crap days learn from them and move on,that's it. The more I go down this route the happier and more confident as a mum I become