AAAAAAGH! Brother and sister-in-law have first baby... doing it Gina-style!!!

[justnally]

Met new teeny tiny bundle yesterday. Very cute. Then they announced that they are following Gina Ford's book. I know I should respect their decision on how to look after their baby, but I felt like screaming "NO!" !!!

Turnip - you are being silly.

(waiting for Turnip's next rant)

yawn

I would love to take anyone who thinks that their method worked (whether GF, AP etc) because of that specific method on a tour around a childrnes orphanage. Routine is (of necessity) rigid - feeding, sleeping, play time etc all timed to the second. There are still childrne who don't sleep well, don't eat well etc.

Methods work because they suit the child IMVHO, not because the method itself works per se.

Exactly, kew.
The child and the parent I'd extend that too though.
I really think it may help my friend to eb more relaxed about what she is doing.
I think she is doing a bloody great job and am really proud, but she is fretting, like we all do, and a routine for her would make her feel more relaxed.

Don't say anything, but rest assured, there are plenty of people out here who will agree with me when I say GINA IS EVIL! It makes me shudder to remember my colleague who was due the same time as me typing out her "timetable".....me I just took it as it came. She had a nervous breakdown. Nuff said!

In the beginning when you are feeding 3 hourly, if the baby will not settle in the cot or whatever then she says you should do whatever to comfort them, including leaving them on the breast. I think that its a fairly unlikely senario, routine are not that you would have a baby on the breast 24/7 to stop it from crying.

Later on when the nap times are more structured she says that you should do whatever necessary to get the baby to sleep at nap time. The aim is to eventually be able to put them in bed awake and have them go to sleep 'contentedly'. She thinks that it is important for them to sleep at nap times so they don't get over tired etc. and the method of geting to sleep is not as crutial. Much better to be asleep on the breast or in the car or being rocked than awake in a dark room with blackout blind, pelmet, lined curtains and draw sheet in Gina's opinion.

Just on the crying thing, my DS cried alot, wouldn't feed properly, wouldn't sleep for more than a couple of hours for first 6 weeks and we were going crazy with lack of sleep Then, in desperation, started GF routine and honestly, it was like DS breathed a sigh of relief - turned into a happy, contented baby, sleeping through the night, very little crying etc. No CC, no leaving him hungry. I think its great if you can work it out yourself, I'm jealous! But we really weren't coping and it helped us so much.
Also, I still think GF is the only one of the "experts" who is realistic about breastfeeding. The others seem to think it is reasonable that your baby should spend 24hrs a day attached to you - not much wonder folk give it up!

think turniphead has been quite circumspect actually.

The first edition of GF came out between my DS1 and DS2 and after having tried demand feeding with DS1 (which was fine, but tiring, with just one DC)I recognised that I wasn't going to be able to repeat this with 2 DCs. The book gave me the confidence to try a routine (not really recommended by HVs to me at that time) and it really worked - so much so that many years later I'm still following it loosely with DS4. I hadn't realised that later editions had changed so much (trip to library tomorrow)but why not let them try it and see if it works, having done both I know which one worked best for me and it may well do for them.

With my ds I followed GF routine and it worked a treat. I honestly think he benefited from being in a strict routine and friends have commented on his ability to go to sleep alone and sleep through the night ( i never did controlled crying-i didnt need to).
When my dd was born recently i tried the routine again and she wasnt interested. She has since found her own routine and is a very contented laid back baby.
I think everyone has their own way and if it works sod what everyone else thinks. All babies are individuals, with different needs and what works for one may not work for another.

My sister gave me the book when i was pregnant with DS now 3 1/2. I tried it for 6 weeks and nearly drove myself, my Dh and my poor DS mad!!! I couldnt understand why Ds was doing as the book said and found it very disheartening..DH binned and i never looked back.
DD aged 10 months..no books or manuals and she is doing just fine!

For some reason I have taken offense to Turnip and not everyone else. Strange. I am not going to go back and forth with you on this.

I came on here asking to be told to butt out of their business (as I said very early on in this thread). I got that from some of you, whilst others shared the same view as me. So, we are all different, yes? They will find out if it works for them, or not. I am not hanging around them, judging their every move. I have been to their house once in the last 2 weeks (they live quite a way from us you will be glad to hear, Turnip), was there for almost 2 hours (they all looked knackered and I remember how that feels, with visitors traipsing through the house).

Got to go. School run!

I have managed to raise three babies and I have no idea who Gina Ford is
I am either terribly ignorant and poorly read or very lucky depending on opinion.

I think that you can just sit back and smile with your brother and SIL- they will soon find out that babies are not a matter of following books! It is all very well in theory but very different in practice!
Their baby might like routine but it may well dig its heels in and protest long and hard.
I love smug first time parents who have a well behaved DC and put it down to their parenting and then go onto their second who breaks every rule in their book!

The only time I get annoyed in the routine vs AP/go with the flow etc is hen either camp declares their way as the best for all babies, eg:

"I have mine in a routine and my friends who don't all have babies who don't sleep through the night and cry all the time"

or

"My baby never cries cos he's attached to me 24/7 and therefore will never cause me any issues"

Equally I am saddened to hear parents saying that they owe the fact that their DCs are happy to a book which should only be a resource, not a Bible. IMO, ideally we should feel free to dip in and out of such books and try what feels right and shun parts that don't or that don't work.

Well said wittyusername.

And I agree with cafebistro "I think everyone has their own way and if it works sod what everyone else thinks. All babies are individuals, with different needs and what works for one may not work for another".

Why do people assume that if you use a book, you follow every word unflinchingly? Or that if you decide against routines that your baby won't settle naturally?

I have a friend who is very anti-GF.

She came round once just as I was rocking one of my babies to sleep in my maya wrap sling before gently transferring her to her cot for her GF lunchtime nap. Her face still makes me laugh - she spluttered at me "but you can't use a wrap sling, you're following Gina Ford"! Why on earth not?

Unless you've watched someone parent every day all day, how can you ever really know how they parent and how can you therefore judge?

I think everyone mixes and matches a little bit. Some babies not on schedules naturally fall into a schedule that actually pretty much matches GF timings. Some babies on GF fall into a schedule that they would naturally have fallen into anyway without the help of a book.

I just picked up a copy of GF's 1st year book. It didn't have the routine in it just vague instructions on Feed Wake Sleep routines and in the front are a couple of sheets of notepaper where I was trying desperately to figure our how to fit in the required number of feeds and sleeps in a day! Suffice to say I puzzled over it for all of a day and haven't given the book a second look except for yesterday when I opened it to figure out whether or not to chuck it in a car boot sale!

TBH - I think GF has changed her tune over the years. The edition I chucked in the bin 7 years ago was very militant.

In regards to the OP maybe you should just casually mention that alot of parents find it very difficult to follow her methods. If GF works for them - great - if not they won't feel like they have failed.

It would be interesting to see how many people bought this book and then how many actually found that it was completely unworkable.

justnally - even as someone who did GF and loved it, I would say that you are duty bound, as an aunt and SIL, to give her some guidance. It is important for people following GF to comprehend that it is there as something to help them, not as a test that they have to pass. Next time you see them why don't you ask how it's going, and say that you didn't like such a strict routine yourself but can see that it might be helpful for some people, but to remember that it's not the end of the world if the baby doesn't do everything Gina says as long as she's happy. I wouldn't have been offended at an AP type saying that to me, though I would have been offended at anybody assuming that because I liked the structure of GF I was prepared to be a cruel Mummy who left my baby to cry regardless of her needs. (I did leave dd to cry sometimes - she was a classic GF baby in that she would not fall asleep whilst being held, but needed to settle herself for a couple of minutes)

I wouldn't worry about it.

When my baby was one day old I still thought I'd use my maternity leave to brush up my Latin and learn Mandarin.

didn't happen.

I cringe now at the theories that I had before I had children. Perhaps you could post back in 6 months and tell us how it went when reality and lack of sleep have taken their toll!