At a loss for what to do, co parent retracting consent for flu jabs for 3rd year in a row.

[Fluwtf]

Hi, hope you can offer some advice. I have 2 DC (5 and 7) and co parent 50/50 with my ex. Medical appointments and the like are always left to me to sort and that’s always been the case. Today for the 3rd year in a row, my ex has called the kids primary school to refuse consent for the flu vaccine for both children. When the form came out in July to consent for the flu jab, I text ex (as I have done every year) and asked for a conversation about why I think they should have the vaccine. I was ignored and I never followed it up with him so I consented a few weeks later to them being vaccinated. I had a call from the school this morning (vaccination day) to say Dad has phoned last night and doesn’t want them vaccinated. What can I do. I am immunocompromised, I have an elderly parent with many health issues, this doesn’t just directly benefit my kids to have the vaccine but so much wider family too. I can take them to get it done through the GP but they will tell their dad and all hell will break loose.

I believe that in the UK the healthcare provider wont vaccinate if they are aware that a parent with PR doesnt consent, even if the other does.

I suppose the next part is why he doesnt consent? Does he genuinely worry about vaccinating the kids and believe its not best for them, or does he do it to undermine you?
In the first instance you could ask for a meeting between you, your ex and school health to attempt to do some myth busting? The myth busting may help if he has genuine reservations, but if the latter would he be more ameanable in front of professionals to not want to look bad? You could even try and get a phone apt with the GP (quite easy in my area but appreciate thats not true of everywhere) and ask them to write a note you could give to your co parent explaining that vaccinations for your children (considering their speicific circumstances) are clinically indicated. GPs get paid to vaccinate and usually strongly believe in vaccines so would probably do this. You could also write to your ex via email or text attaching latest NHS advice re childhood vaccinations. If they still dont agree it unfortunately sounds like a specific issue order for Court, but with all the above showing youve made attempts to keep it out of court, plus that court usually follow nhs guidance as this is in best interests of children then I imagine they will vaccinated for as long as they need parental consent for them.

OP is immunocompromised, not advisable for her to have the vaccination.
Children are super spreaders…they mix a lot, vaccinating them is beneficial for them and those they come into contact with.

Do you need his consent? Why do you ask him? In Ireland we can bring them to a pharmacy or gp. If he says no you can’t but if next year you don’t ask and just organise it surely it’s not a thing?

This! Book it in with them on your days and take them. Tell him he needs to go to court if he wants to block you and explain to the judge why he wants your safety compromised.

I didn't mean literally stand up to him I meant not being able to say yes because they know what the response will be if they agree and know their father doesn't want them to have it.

I think it's really hard to understand unless you've seen such parents and the hold they have over their children even as they grow up or have been in that situation.

There is some terrible advice on this thread which illustrates why seeking proper professional advice is usually a better option than asking randomers online.

Vaccination is one of a few things which specifically requires the consent of both parents in law. I realise that often healthcare professionals do assume both parents have consented if one parent brings the child to their appointment. However, legally, they are not supposed to vaccinate if they know the other parent does not consent. In terms of getting the children vaccinated, OP, your options are either to address your ex's concerns and talk him around; or you need to seek a Specific Issue Order.

Please don't take them elsewhere to get them vaccinated knowing he doesn't consent - it then gives him ammunition to claim that you're the sort of coparent who deliberately ignores his wishes.

If this is an annual battle and your ex is refusing to engage in discussion, it may be worth getting legal advice about your options.

Courts in England and Wales have generally taken the view that routine NHS vaccinations are in a child’s best interests unless there’s a specific medical reason not to have them.

Your immunocompromised status and the fact the children have close contact with a vulnerable elderly relative are relevant. The vaccination is designed not only to protect the children and also reduce transmission to people who are more at risk.

You may feel you need to be more cautious about contact between the children and vulnerable family members during flu season. If that resulted in the children seeing less of a close relative, that could potentially affect those important relationships.

Keep copies of messages showing that you’ve tried to discuss it reasonably and that he has either ignored or objected at the last minute. That history may be important if you ever need to demonstrate a pattern of behaviour to the court.

Don’t be mad. Removing medical rights isn’t even a thing, let alone something a court would do for a flu vaccine.

You are very very wrong.

I think you need to bite the bullet and get the GP to do it.

Ex needs to learn that he can't control you.

It's the flu jab, not major surgery!

Same here

Exactly. The court would understand OP's rationale.

The form is asking for a consent from a parent , it doesn’t specify which one. I’m divorced and always used to sign all the consents forms at school. The only time my ex signed a consent form is when our dc was a toddler and I needed to travel abroad with him. Your ex has weaponised his consent right against you.

Both parents get an email so I have had the situation where I have consented electronically for flu jab and my exh has declined it. I wasn’t going to fight over the flu jab (but have been very clear all others are non negotiable and I would go to court if I have to). So it isn’t simply a case of don’t tell him. This year one child has had it the other hasn’t - bloody idiot ex believing in Facebook antivaxxers

Well the answer is simple
Get legal advice - you can call for half an hour free from some solicitors, also approach cab who might direct you?
It feels like a problem that might come up in other medicaln scenarios - I'd strongly recommend legal advice so it's properly looked at.

If it’s in the best interests of the children, then you don’t need his consent.

What you do need is a letter before action

Dear Ex

I wish our children to have medical treatment including vaccinations as reccomended by the NHS/Their GP

You have refused consent for this by calling the school at the last minute

It is important that they are vaccinated because if issues around my health & that of other family members.

Please can yo provide consent for this vaccination by (date) otherwise I will be taking the matter to court

Yours........

I would not lie to him but instead take it to family court to cover this potentially all future medical issues. He is either a conspiracy nut or he is controlling you via this. He should not have a say in your children's health issues, its dangerous.

I had the flip side of the same problem with my ex

She had my oldest son tested for allergies using a 'Diagnostic Vega Test Machine'

Something that I could not find in the scientific literature other than for a New Zealand Doctor struck off for using it.

I spoke to his GP & made my concerns known

Stiff letter followed to ex and the person using the machine to say 'Dont do it again'

its a shame the OP hasn’t come back to the thread to answer the questions.

Definitely take this to court, as you will be dealing with this every year, and possibly for other vaccinations as your children get older. My ex refused medical consent for our DD for an important issue and that was the final straw for the courts and he lost custody altogether, thank fuck.

What can I do. I am immunocompromised, I have an elderly parent with many health issues, this doesn’t just directly benefit my kids to have the vaccine but so much wider family too.

I would go to court. Sounds like he's actively trying to kill you.

ChatGPT is my friend here. I’ve checked its accuracy. I have actually done this myself. As the court said. This issue centres on the welfare of the children not the parents beliefs. The order was granted.

Steps to apply to the Family Court for a Specific Issue Order
If you and the children’s father cannot agree about their vaccinations, you can apply to the Family Court for a Specific Issue Order under section 8 of the Children Act 1989.

1. Gather your documents

Prepare: ● The children’s full names and dates of birth. ● Their NHS numbers, if available. ● Their vaccination records. ● Details of any vaccinations that are outstanding. ● Written advice from the GP or vaccination service. ● Any relevant medical information about the children. ● Copies of messages or emails showing that the father does not agree. ● Evidence that you have tried to resolve the disagreement. Ask the GP or vaccination nurse for a short written note confirming: ● Which vaccinations are recommended. ● Whether the vaccinations are suitable for the children. ● Whether there are any medical contraindications. ● Whether any vaccination is time-sensitive.

1. Attend a MIAM

Before applying, you will usually need to attend a Mediation Information and Assessment Meeting, known as a MIAM. A MIAM is an information meeting with a mediator. It does not mean that you must agree to mediation or resolve the matter through mediation. There are exemptions, including cases involving domestic abuse, urgency or child-protection concerns. If an exemption applies, explain this to the mediator or on the application form. The mediator will usually complete the relevant section of Form C100 confirming that you attended a MIAM or that an exemption applies.

1. Complete Form C100

You need to complete Form C100 — Application under the Children Act 1989. You can obtain the form from the government website: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/form-c100-application-under-the-children-act-1989-for-a-child-arrangements-prohibited-steps-specific-issue-section-8-order-or-to-vary-or-discharge On the form:

1. Select Specific Issue Order.
2. Enter your details as the applicant.
3. Enter the father’s details as the respondent.
4. Enter the details of each child.
5. Explain that the dispute concerns the children’s vaccinations.
6. State which vaccinations are outstanding, if known.
7. Explain what the GP or NHS vaccination service recommends.
8. Explain that the father does not consent.
9. Explain why you believe vaccination is in the children’s best interests.

10. Complete the MIAM section. 11. Sign the statement of truth.

1. State clearly what order you want

You should ask for a specific and limited order. For example: > I apply for a Specific Issue Order under section 8 of the Children Act 1989 permitting me to arrange and consent to the administration of the vaccinations recommended for the children by their GP or relevant NHS healthcare professional, in accordance with the NHS vaccination schedule, despite the father’s objection. You should list the children’s names and dates of birth and identify the vaccinations if possible. It may be better to ask for permission for the particular vaccinations currently recommended rather than asking for unrestricted permission for every future vaccination.

1. Include a short explanation

You can explain: ● The children’s vaccination history. ● Which vaccinations are outstanding. ● The medical advice you have received. ● The father’s position. ● Any attempts to reach agreement. ● Why you believe the vaccinations are in the children’s best interests. ● Whether there is any urgency. Keep the explanation factual and focused on the children’s health. Avoid personal criticism of the father.

1. Pay the application fee or apply for help with fees

The current application fee for a C100 application is generally £270. You may be able to receive help with the fee depending on your income, savings, benefits and circumstances. Information is available at: https://www.gov.uk/get-help-with-court-fees You may need to complete Form EX160. If you are applying for help with fees, submit the fee-remission application with your C100 application.

1. Submit the application

You may be able to apply online, or you can submit the paper form. For a paper application, check the current court guidance carefully. You will normally need to send the completed C100 and the required number of copies to the appropriate Family Court. You can find the relevant court here: https://www.gov.uk/find-court-tribunal If there is already an ongoing family court case involving the children, contact that court before making a new application. The application may need to be made within the existing proceedings.

1. Tell the court if the matter is urgent

If there is a medical reason why the vaccinations should not be delayed, explain this clearly in the application and provide supporting evidence from the GP or vaccination service. The court may consider whether the matter should be dealt with urgently. Do not assume that the court will list the case immediately unless it has confirmed this.

1. After the application is issued

The court will send you information about: ● The case number. ● The first hearing. ● Any directions you must follow. ● Documents that must be filed or served. ● Whether Cafcass will carry out safeguarding checks. You must follow the court’s directions and send documents by the deadlines given. The father will normally receive a copy of the application and have an opportunity to respond. 10. Prepare for the hearing Prepare a short statement or chronology covering: ● The children’s ages and medical history. ● The vaccinations recommended. ● The advice received from the GP. ● The father’s objection. ● Your attempts to resolve the issue. ● Why the order is in the children’s best interests. Bring copies of your evidence, including vaccination records, GP correspondence and relevant messages. The judge may ask questions about: ● The children’s health. ● The vaccinations proposed. ● Any medical risks. ● The father’s concerns. ● The steps taken to reach agreement. ● The children’s views, if they are old enough for those views to be relevant. You can represent yourself as a litigant in person, although you may wish to obtain legal advice if possible. 11. The court’s decision The court will decide the issue by considering the children’s welfare and the medical evidence. The court may: ● Make the Specific Issue Order. ● Refuse the application. ● Ask for further medical evidence. ● Direct the parties to obtain information from the GP. ● List another hearing. If the order is made, obtain a sealed copy of the order and provide it to the GP or vaccination service. Check the wording carefully to confirm what it authorises. 12. If you need practical support You may find assistance from: ● Support Through Court: https://supportthroughcourt.org/ ● Advicenow: https://www.advicenow.org.uk/

The only part I do not agree with is the recommendation not to apply for ALL vaccinations. I did EXACTLY this. I did not want to have to do this every time he objected to a vaccination.

In most cases for immunocompromised individuals the advice is for them to have the flu vaccine. I prescribe a lot of immune suppressing medicines and we advise our patients to have the flu vaccine yearly. Even people having chemotherapy are advised to have the flu vaccine, although a specific time in the chemo regime may be recommended.

I would go to court for a specific issues order to obtain a court order saying the kids are to be vaccinated. It sucks it has to come to that but needs must as you and your ex cannot agree.