Toxic friendship or bad parenting?

[TiredAndTeasy23]

Ok. Am I being ridiculous?

Catch up with a friend as we have very similar aged daughters. Mine is 4 and hers is 3.5.
She has married into a well off family and loves to talk about holidays, shopping, how she would never dress her child in Primark clothes and only buys the expensive make up when I say I’ve been to Superdrug and got a £5 mascara. The main issue is my daughter is a wild child. She is loud, physical, inquisitive, funny and confident. She has her moments, she is disciplined and made to say sorry and have a break from play if she is rough, hers is the opposite. Very quiet and shy and likes to do quiet play but equally loves my daughter and always tries to run around with her and involve her. My friend loves to run a commentary on our catch ups. For example “Oh D (my child) just pushed E (her child). D just snatched Es toy. Oh D has pushed E again (when I say pushed I mean my child scooted her child over because she came over to the toy mine was playing with” I just gave the stance of unless my child is being physical where she might hurt or being rude then they are just little kids working out how to play together and learn boundaries! We both came from being single parents struggling to both being married but I know growth happens but I just don’t think we are compatible as friends? I feel drained after meeting as I feel a failure. Her kid never screams or shouts or has a tantrum and is so placid. Mine is beautiful and full of beans and i absolutely do tell her off, she has learnt what kind hands are but there are times where she acts her age and has “big feelings” (hate that term but it’s apt here!) and I just feel like it’s more of a point scoring commentary rather than a catch up, she watches everything they do intently. Am I being crap or is this friendship done?

The friendship sounds done. And you sound surprisingly judgemental of her, her money, her taste and her daughter. Especially as it’s yours that misbehaves. There’s nothing wrong with your daughter misbehaving, she’s so little, but judging your friend for it doesn’t make sense. Time to move on from this friendship

Big feelings and kind hands. Jesus…..

Im amazed she still wants to hang out with you. In any case you sound jealous and it seems it’s really not a friendship.

The running commentary is in the vain hope you’ll do something about your kid.

Fair point. That maybe came across wrong. I meant about her expensive taste is always in reference to something I’ve said.

oooh I got a bargain mascara £5!
ohh I don’t ever buy anything other than XXX

i got the cutest little top yesterday Primark!
I don’t dress her in Primark it’s crap

im Skint after the caravan weekend
oh we’ve just booked Disneyland

yeah I like working part time
i work full time now. Can’t imagine not working.

its always a draining comparison. But I get I probably am sounding a bit judgey

The worst my kid did was scoot hers over when she was building lego and her daughter came over and I did explain about sharing but that’s an ongoing process currently

The friendship is done. Few friendships survive major differences in parenting. I don’t think make up budgets come into it but you think she’s a snob and that makes you defensive and she thinks you’re a lax parent which is understandably making her wary. My children are more like hers and I’ve stopped spending time with someone who’d describe hers as wild and full of beans because my children don’t play like that and don’t enjoy it.

At their ages and given your DD’s behaviour of course she’s watching intently, she’s trying to make sure her child doesn’t get hurt. Your 4 year old is pushing and snatching, she’s got to say something and presumably knows you’d rather she told you than dealt with it herself. Tbh if a 4 year old kept on like around my 3.5 year old (I have one), I’d have stopped getting together for play dates by now.

Neither of you seems happy or relaxed when you meet up so stop doing it and you can each find more likeminded friends to be with.

You are 100% sounding judgey. Why would you always talk to her about low cost stuff or being broke if you no she will say the opposite and it will
annoy you?
I agree with PP, the commentary on your child’s behaviour is in the hope you will do something about it. You just aren’t compatible.

When I say a wild child. I’m not saying a kid who isn’t disciplined and is horrible and allowed to do as they please. She is pretty good most of the time. Polite, kind and respectful but there are times when she acts like her age and might scoot hers over or go and take a book when the other hadn’t finished and before I can go and deal with it - I’m reminded that mine is “naughty” and hers isn’t. I guess the friendship is done. I much prefer likeminded parents who don’t make me feel shit when mine has a wobble or snatches. They empathise that they have been there and how it’s normal for small children to have moments like this and appreciate that my child has been made to apologise and taken a time out but we move on and it’s the same of their child does it to mine. Maybe I’m wrong and I do have the spawn of Satan and I’m a shit mum after all 🤣

You implied you only intervene if your child might hurt or be rude. It doesn’t mean your child is bad or you are a shit parent, but it means your parenting differs and it’s not because she’s doing something wrong. If anything you are as bad as eachother. You clearly don’t like her and you’ve realised it’s done, so I’m sure there’s are lots of other mums out there that you will find friendship with

Are you from the uk? I’m not understanding your terminology for things. What do you mean by ‘scoot over’? Do you mean she’s pushing the child to the ground? And she snatches her toys? Does ‘big feelings’ means she’s having tantrums when she doesn’t get her own way? And your friend is ‘watching everything they do intently’ and ‘running a commentary’ when your daughter is pushing and snatching and screaming and expressing her ‘big feelings’ around her quiet, shy child. Perhaps she’s terrified of your child’s behaviour around hers? And you’re basically saying you’re fed up with being told about your child’s shit behaviour and only want to be told if the other child is in actual physical danger, otherwise it’s just children learning boundaries? I’m surprised she’s still friends with you tbh.

Actually is this a reverse?

genuine question, but at what point do we allow small children to figure things out? If everytime we jump in straight away? If my child is being mean I am there. If they are arguing over a toy? I let them figure it out but with this friend it’s very much I’m a bad parent to let it get to that? My child is bigger than hers physically which isn’t her fault she’s just tall and lean so against her dinky child who is tiny in comparison, mine will always look like she is in the wrong for being bigger. They can argue over a toy but mine should know better despite only a few months between them?

A reverse? No 🤣 mine is the big bad bully.

I’m sure there are loads of mums who would love to chat with her about holidays and shopping and makeup (without judging) while her well-behaved child plays nicely with their child.

So feel free to drop her and find a pal who also shops at Superdrug and has an equally laissez-faire approach to parenting.

Im With you on this one - she sounds awful and the non stop bragging/tone deafness would want me to just move on.

with regards to discipline we can’t know whether there is an issue without actually seeing you with your little one so can’t really comment on that. But regardless someone who makes comments like the ones you have given examples of just isn’t nice.

Yes uk. Scoot over meaning they’re sat next to each other but mine is budging up to hers because she doesn’t want to stop playing with the Lego tower she’s building.

she isn’t screaming and shouting in that instance? She has taken a toy. Or didn’t want to share. She’s just turned 5 🤣 but maybe she should be on her very best behaviour at all times.

My friend loves to run a commentary on our catch ups. For example “Oh D (my child) just pushed E (her child). D just snatched Es toy. Oh D has pushed E again

Given your updates are you saying these things aren’t true or that they are but you don’t think they’re worth commenting on? Surely you’re watching them as much as your friend is. Either she snatches and pushes or she doesn’t. If she does then the friend is right to say something if you’re letting it slide. In her shoes I’d have ditched the commentary and told your child not to snatch. Quiet well behaved children shouldn’t get used to being pushed around by the wild, spirited, full of beans ones.

It’s not the kid who should no better, they are 3 and 4 years old, you need to supervise more. The other mums kid doesn’t require as much supervision,
but yours does. You wouldn't be so keen on letting them work it out themselves if yours was the smaller quieter one

You’re the problem here OP
Either be a friend to her or stop meeting up.
with Friends like you who needs enemies……

Ok scooting is very bad form. I have a 4 yo and a 1yo. If the 4yo scoots the 1yo it’s a 3 strike warning because it is passive aggressive.

I will let him do it if there’s an absolute twat kid at a play sesh but that’s it.

I am not surprised the other mother is always watching both children intently - some one has to whilst yours gets away with poor behaviour.

I am also not surprised you are thinking of dropping the friendship it is better to do so before she calls you out on your daughter's behaviour.

' scoot ' indeed ! did you actually mean push or shove or ?

I’m guessing you’re not really after advice as you've clearly decided you’re in the right. Yes I would get involved with my child snatching toys every single time, and would expect every other good parent to. The fact that you find basic parenting so preposterous, that you can’t really comprehend basic discipline to the point you respond to every suggestion with laughing emojis says that you’re not going to take anything on board so it’s not worth anyone taking the time to advise you really

She’s actually 5? Is she at school?

It’s like a very slowmo and consistent pushing out the way where you have plausible deniability if you glance for a split second as opposed watch the whole interaction.

So imagine the Lego tower in the middle. Kid comes over. Other kid then moves round to sit there and lean them out. Kid retreats goes the other side. And they continue the pursuit by moving round again. It’s a passive aggressive/ slightly agressive ‘mine’ thing.

Not mentioning the content (Mine's 36).

However I wouldn't want to be friends with a snob who considers Primark below her.

She may well end up there one day....

Life is unpredictable.

I have ‘wild children’ when they are playing in small groups I heavily supervise. No pushing, no snatching for example and I would step in every time. I do however mostly just spend time with friends who have similar children and parent in a similar way. I have one friend who lets their child do whatever and it’s too stressful. Dc spend some time with quiet sedentary children but I always feel bad afterwards! So I think the commentary is to encourage you to do something, at 5 I wouldn’t want her to be snatching and pushing anyone ideally but not a much smaller quieter 3.5 year old.
but also friend sounds rude and it sounds like neither of you actually like each other that much. I’d just let yourselves drift apart.