Toxic friendship or bad parenting?

[TiredAndTeasy23]

Ok. Am I being ridiculous?

Catch up with a friend as we have very similar aged daughters. Mine is 4 and hers is 3.5.
She has married into a well off family and loves to talk about holidays, shopping, how she would never dress her child in Primark clothes and only buys the expensive make up when I say I’ve been to Superdrug and got a £5 mascara. The main issue is my daughter is a wild child. She is loud, physical, inquisitive, funny and confident. She has her moments, she is disciplined and made to say sorry and have a break from play if she is rough, hers is the opposite. Very quiet and shy and likes to do quiet play but equally loves my daughter and always tries to run around with her and involve her. My friend loves to run a commentary on our catch ups. For example “Oh D (my child) just pushed E (her child). D just snatched Es toy. Oh D has pushed E again (when I say pushed I mean my child scooted her child over because she came over to the toy mine was playing with” I just gave the stance of unless my child is being physical where she might hurt or being rude then they are just little kids working out how to play together and learn boundaries! We both came from being single parents struggling to both being married but I know growth happens but I just don’t think we are compatible as friends? I feel drained after meeting as I feel a failure. Her kid never screams or shouts or has a tantrum and is so placid. Mine is beautiful and full of beans and i absolutely do tell her off, she has learnt what kind hands are but there are times where she acts her age and has “big feelings” (hate that term but it’s apt here!) and I just feel like it’s more of a point scoring commentary rather than a catch up, she watches everything they do intently. Am I being crap or is this friendship done?

Snatching toys or shoving is not something to be “figured out”, that’s not fair on the kid who had the toy snatched or was shoved. At 4 they need these things reinforced by you - you go over, take the toy back and say “Your friend had this toy first, we don’t snatch things, we ask if we can have a turn.” And give the toy back to the friend.

The other child shouldn’t be made to figure things out with a child who is behaving badly.

Tbh OP, it sounds like you just sit back and let your child annoy the other child as you do nothing about it. No wonder she comments on it - she’s hoping you’ll finally get off your arse and parent your child. And your responses on this thread shows that you don’t actually care either. I’ve never let either of my children snatch, push or scoot.

I get the point about the mascara being inconsiderate but her mentioning her holidays in response to you mentioning your holiday isn’t her being a snob.

Sounds like she calls you out for your lack of parenting and you’re finding excuses to dislike her. The friendship has definitely run its course.

I think they’re two separate problems op. You both sound too different. I never think pulling out of a friendship needs to be a thing unless they’re in school or you both work together or are neighbours. And it’s hard when your friends have kids that are better behaved, I remember my friends child would sit and read books while mine ran around like a lunatic! As long as you’re trying to parent I’d say try to not go to the same places as your friend

I thought you said she was 4? If she's just turned 5 it makes her behaviour all the more concerning. It don't intervene all the time but if they are shoving and snatching then I absolutely intervene and would end a play date if my 4.5 year old was behaving like this. I certainly wouldn't want to be having a playdate with a kid displaying this behaviour.

All this talk about "big feelings" and "full of beans" and "kind hands" suggests some rather hands off and ineffective parenting rather than actually dealing with the problems yourself.

I am more surprised that it isn’t the other mum who thinks this friendship is done. She clearly thinks your parenting is lax, you think your child is simply spirited and no one on this forum can possibly know either way. But it doesn’t matter, because the point is she wouldn’t want to have her child potentially being pushed over regardless of whether that pushing is being spirited or lax parenting.

Tbh I know who I’d rather be friends with

This is her not sharing, how can you not see that? And she’s not 4, she’s a 5 year old ‘scooting’ a 3 year old. Having read all your posts here you’ve very much made it sound like the problem is you

OP, I am speaking from a position of having two children with very different personalities. My older one sounds very like your DD (energetic, sociable, wild, loves to run and explore, needs guidance to behave appropriately sometimes) and my younger one more like your friend's DD (quiet, a bit shy, takes some time to warm up). Strangely enough, the only time my little DD is truly wild is when she's with her big brother!

So I don't see this as a parenting issue like everyone else seems to. When you have a child with a certain personality and it's your first child, you tend to see that as being 'normal' and 'correct' and you don't necessarily understand the other child and where they're coming from in the way you would if you had more experience.

When I only had DC1, I had a friend who had a child much like your friend's child. I came to dread meet ups, as her child could do no wrong in her eyes and they would turn into a constant commentary on what my child was doing wrong... running, climbing, not playing the game the child wanted, playing the game wrongly. And the child was perfect in his mother's eyes and could do no wrong, so therefore my child had to be the one who was wrong in some way. The only thing I regret, looking back, was being overly harsh to my child in response because I was embarrassed and in my inexperience assumed my child was the one at fault. He wasn't, they were just different children. And strangely enough, my friend went on to have a second child who is very much like DC1, and I've had DC2 who is a well behaved little angel around strangers, and this is something we've talked about since and we are now both of us wiser parents.

And we're both a bit sad because the DC1s of this world seem to have an easier time at school and with friendship than the DC2s. So we've both had to do some supporting and building of confidence, her for her first child (who struggled hugely when the second child arrived) and me for my quiet second child.

I felt sad the other day because we met a little DC1 in the playground, a lovely outgoing confident little girl. She took a shine to my little one and wanted to play with her, but DC2 just wanted to play with me as the other child was a bit too much for her. DC1 would have been straight in there, thick as thieves... she was exactly the sort of child he adored to play with when he was little.

You’re not friends with this woman anymore and it’s time to help your kid find different playmates.

I don't think the issue is about personality from reading some posts. Yes some kids are more boisterous and outgoing than others, but it shouldn't be an excuse for poor behaviour in a 5 year old shoving and snatching toys. And it certainly isn't an excuse for the OP to just sit back and do nothing about it which is what seems to be happening.

All kids transgress. Most 3 and 4yos will need adult intervention at times when playing with each other. When you both have children, the friendships which work best are those where both friends appreciate this and can intervene kindly and supportively with each other's children and neither parent feels judged. People rarely parent optimally if they're responding to feeling judged.

It's usually possible to find something to like and encourage in most children, but of course if the children really aren't getting along, as opposed to having the occasional squabble, then it's time for adult only meetups.

If I were your friend I would be telling your child off since you don't. Except I suspect you wouldn't like that so we wouldn't be friends.

Why are you letting your child bully a younger, smaller child?

I completely agree. The OP though has been quite clear though she doesn't intervene and in her words if her child is arguing she leaves them to "figure it out themselves". So the issue I've said isn't about personality but about the OPs lack of intervention in these moments.

Though I'm confused about the age of the child. One post she's 4 and in another 5. I wouldn't be expecting a 5 year old to be acting like a 3 year old in any instance though.

I think you’re getting a hard time here. If I had a very well behaved child and a good friend had a wild child, I wouldn’t sourly sit there pointing out everything the wild child did that I felt was wrong or too much, I’d get down with the kids and engage the wild child, show that I loved them (like I love my friend) and just actively parent and protect my little one, and model the level of supervision I expect (and also maybe help out my friend by giving them a bit of a breather from managing their wild child!).

“Ooh thank you it’s nice to share, let’s give each other space” etc. I always shower my friend’s kids in attention and make them feel loved, because I love my friends who do this to mine. But my perspective of my friends is that they are like my children’s “aunts” so we are all quite loving and hands on like family.

What your friend is doing just sounds like a standoffish stranger at a playgroup rather than a true friend.

And someone without the EQ to not mention their comparative expensive tastes whenever you talk about a bargain is a bit dim IMO.

Equally, you should probably be a bit more aware of your audience, you will have some friends who shop at primark who would be interested in that story - no need to give your rich friend the primark ick 🤣

She sounds draining. I had a friend who always made me feel like an inadequate parent while everything she did was perfect. It was a relief when our friendship drifted

My youngest is a wild child, high energy and sensory issues (adhd and asd) meaning I will happily let her run wild outside and she often looks a mess but in no way would I allow pushing - if that happened she would be immediately removed from the setting. Snatching would be a warning and if done again would also be a removal from the situation.