Should I limit my children's time with their unreliable grandmother?

[Curlyfifteen]

I don't know where to start.

I have two girls age 7 and 3. They adore their grandmother aged 72, she plays with them (on a good day) and spoils them with toys.

But. She is also a carer for my adult sister with a mental age of 2. And she also frequently breaks promises, screams in anger and talks adult talk in front of them, she sleeps during the day and awake most of the night. I know she is tired and exhausted from looking after my sister.

My girls want to spend time with her but I feel that when we try she is unavailable, sleeping, angry, making plans/promises she can't keep. And so I feel a pull to keep them away from her.

I don't know what to do or feel. I know her life is hard. I don't know.

PS - I just brought them to visit with her and she is totally unavailable and angry. I left with a sad 7yo telling her Granny is unwell and we must go home so she can rest which isn't exactly true. We had stayed over the night and she saw them only a few hours because she slept the whole of the following day.

Bloody hell your poor mum. Does she ever get a break? Is there a longer term plan for your sister once your mum passes? That’s the priority here surely.

No plan.

The is the option for her to go into a care home but Mum doesn’t want to put her in one. it is hard to know if she will be cared for properly.

I think she hopes i will inherit her and I don’t know what to do about that if i am being honest because I don’t want to.

I spent a large chunk of my childhood from age 9-18 as her secondary carer with my mum. It took a lot out of me. I now have two young children and cannot imagine looking after her too. i would no longer be able to work and she outweighs me in that physically i would struggle to do some of the manual things and she can knock me over (accidentally not on purpose). For example when she needs support walking on uneven ground, if she tumbles i will go down too and its scary.

But I guess what the post was about was that she is upsetting my older child by saying we will do this or that and then no doing it. Also yelling in front of her. Do i keep her away or what?

You asked does she get a break. Each wed my sister stays the night at respite care. And again for a weekend once a month.

Each day she has a nurse come and get her dressed + breakfast in the morning and onto the minibus for her daycare (sort of like nursery school but all year round) from 9-4pm.

I think your eldest child is old enough to understand that acting as full time carer to her aunt is incredibly difficult and so granny is often tired and can be upset. It’s nothing your daughter has done, but that granny’s life is very hard and so whilst she might make promises with the best of intentions, sometimes on the day she isn’t able to follow through because she’s very tired or unwell.
I would then prioritise speaking to your mom without the kids there to see how she feels she is coping, be up front about not being willing to become a full time carer and that a plan needs to be in place for her death/incapacity.

I think you need a better system for finding the right time for them to see her so that she's at her best rather than frazzled when she does. Maybe keep the time limited. The broken promises is hard, I'd perhaps tell the children that granny tells them all the things she'd love to do with them and hopes to find the time for. But life with x is very hard so poor granny can't really do the things she'd like to, but she tells you so you can both imagine how nice it'd be. This is just about granny though, when mummy tells you something will happen then it will! Ask your mum to stop using the word promise and say hope instead whenever she's making plans with them.

The shouting is not on though. Is it when she's been around them too long/feeling overwhelmed/extra tired etc, or is it unpredictable? If there's a pattern to it meaning you could avoid it by seeing her in short bursts on good days only then great, much harder if it's unpredictable.

Yes maybe thats the issue. She usually likes to visit us at our house but she had cancelled so many times that I decided to take them to visit her and overnight (as she said she wanted that and its school holidays). But I don’t think she would ever say dont come its a bad time. I think it was a bad time but i had no way of knowing. She never said.

She told us to go ahead to the park near hers and she would join later. We were there 6 hours playing, getting lunch, shopping but waiting for her then she said she is not coming. So we drove home (1.5hrs in another direction). We never would have stayed out that long otherwise.

many adults do the broken promises thing. Especially if it’s just said and not a promise (oh, well go out to X sometime - an adult knows this may or may not happen, a child expects it to).

just say to your kids (as a pp said) that granny wants to do X but unfortunately she needs to look after Y and it wasn’t possible.

sleeping and not turning up to stuff sound like consequences of your mum being a carer. She must be exhausted.

adult talk?

don’t go round to your mum’s, but welcome her to yours when she comes (if you can - obviously if heading out on school run not possible)

She is 72 and still caring for her daughter? Absolutely hats off to the woman. No wonder she is losing it a little. Who can blame her, I know I would. Does she get a break or any respite care from anyone?

72 years old and a full time carer - god help the poor woman.

I think PP have it right, explaining that grandma wants to play and do all the fun things she says. She means to do them, but looking after Auntie Rachel is such hard work for a grandma that she falls asleep or feels tired and grumpy. She loves you and wants to spend time with you but her life is very difficult.

And yes, it's ok to be upset when someone lets you down.

OP, if you know your mum would never say it's a bad time, be honest with yourself, you are adding to her burdens. Don't invite yourselves over, wait for her to visit and be patient that she needs to cancel.

Or be proactive and arrange another two nights of a carer per week so your mum isn't on her knees all the time.

Your poor mother, she must be so exhausted it's not surprising it's coming out as anger. She needs a lot more help than she's getting.

She usually likes to visit us at our house but she had cancelled so many times that I decided to take them to visit her and overnight
Did you decide on an impromptu visit or did you actually call up and arrange it?

It should such a hard situation l, your poor mum! I can see how you feel let down but she’s got an awful lot on her plate, I think I’d be sleepy and angry! Maybe play your visits on respite weekends once a month after your mum has had a full nights sleep. There’s no point adding to her plate and no point in having your girls upset. It’s nobody’s fault it’s just the way it is and it needs planning and preparation rather than plans during busy days.

Your DM must be beyond exhausted. Does your DSis sleep at night? Do you know if your DM has sought any help for this if she doesn’t sleep?

Are you able to have a conversation with your DM about what will happen when she is no longer able to care for her? I think that you need to do this, away from the DC and preferably somewhere neutral.

You absolutely do not have to look after her. The physical side of caring for her sounds completely overwhelming. If you wanted to you could still see her and be involved in her welfare but I wouldn’t want to take on the day to day care. It sounds as though you did enough in your teens.

And to answer your questions I would start to limit time spent with your DM. The anger alone would be enough.

Gosh, your mum must be exhausted! No wonder she’s grumpy.

She likes to visit you so invite her to visit you. Don’t tell your dd’s. Just make it a normal day and surprise, granny is here. If she doesn’t come, no big deal, she clearly needs to rest. Let her rest and carry on with your day.

I think it’s hard to appreciate because you can’t see the forest for the trees because you’ve spent your whole life being in the shadows because of her caring responsibilities. But this isn’t at all unusual for grandparents who literally have nothing to do but drink tea and go to book club. My own mum hasn’t seen my kids in 6 years! She has nothing to do but take walks on the beach. No other grandchildren or adult children or caring responsibilities. It sounds like your mum would like to be involved in their lives, but is pulled in a million directions. I’d give her some grace.

Yes she is amazing to still do it. I know i could not. Yes she does get respite but its still a big job.

I wanted to save her the drive as it hurts her leg. Its about 1hr20-2hrs depending on the m25.

yes there is a small part of me that is annoyed (selfishly) because she couldn’t be there much for me (my brain understands but my heart doesnt) and now her grandchildren too.

its a no win situation.

I think the answer here OP is to take a big step back and address a totally different issue that doesn't directly concern your DC: what are you and your mum going to oput in place for your sister's care, and when can this start?

If you really are not going to care for her, (no judgement there; you have your dc) it is better this is in place before she loses your mum, so your mum can support her in the transition.

Also, your mum deserves the break and a chance to spend quality time with your dc and not be frazzled to the point of the grave.

I suspect if you solve the caring issue, the rest will self-resolve and you won't need to think about keeping your dc away from your DM.

I know these big questions are hard to confront, but isn't it better now, while you have your DM to support the process and she can then enjoy some years reprieve? The current set-up just isn't going to be feasible indefinitely.

ETA sorry you are going through this. It sounds hard. But confronting will be better than you all limping along ... until you aren't.

Thank you. I think your insight is valuable. You have some good points.

Why would she not be looked after properly? The day centre is and the respite is, why wouldn't a full time care home?

Short staffed, often these things can be tough.

It's good to explain to kids how things are, if they're mature (and that's not necessarily based on chronological age) enough to understand why an adult might not be behaving "correctly". Like with grandparents with dementia.
You could try talking to your mum and asking her to only shout at you if she needs to vent, not in front of the kids, but if she's at breaking point, that's easier said than done.
I'd try to facilitate her seeing her grandkids as much as possible, but maybe getting her to meet them out when your sister is away would be easier?

In mums opinion the respite don’t do a great job, very basic, often not well washed when she returns, usually very hungry and thirsty and tearful. But I think as it’s one night a week and there isn’t an alternative they tollerate it so Mum can stay sane.

my sister can’t speak properly and like many care settings its easy for vulnerable not to get cared for well as they cannot report it. The same can happen in elderly care. Its a big issue.

She loves the day centre. It was set up by another parent and the staff love and are dedicated to the care of young minded folks like my sister. She loves a nursery rhyme and a boogie.

Surely it would be better for your sister to go into care now. So your mum can see that she’s settled and being looked after properly, rather than a crisis occurring.

Wouldn’t it be better for your mum to support her through a transition to a care home now, and have an input into the home itself. Rather than once she’s died, relying on social services supporting her over the loss of her mum and ensuring she’s looked after properly. Which they won’t.

You are right, it would be better.