Am i off my rocker for wanting to move family to SW France after struggling to settle in Ireland

[ThisCrazyCat]

Haven't been on Mumsnet since the crazy days of all night breast feeding..turning to you now to gather opinion.

Am i off my rocker for considering moving to France (specifically near Pau) with son who would be (11) and three older kids who would be at Uni/starting out in first jobs they will be 17, 20 & 22. We left britain 10 years ago to live in Ireland (i'm irish, dad is british), but the kids haven't settled well; the only one that has settled is the 18yr old who'll be off to uni if we move. When i say the kids haven't settled i mean it; we've had years of camhs with one, and one other had to go to a boarding school as he was being bullied so much in the local school. We live rurally and 11 yr old has next to no friends.

I hate the climate and perma darkness here and want a clean break. I speak medium french..DH and kids speak none, but can learn.

I would love to hear from anyone who took the plunge and emigrated, or even better if you emmigrated to France, and even better again if you emigrated to the SW France!

I'm not sure moving for better weather is a good idea. My brother and his family live in France - they have just spent a month in the West of Ireland which they thought was complete bliss! No fire risk and no need for aircon.

Why France if most of your family don't speak the language and need to engage with health services (will you be insured in France for those services, as an incomer).

I think you need to examine exactly why you want to move, especially since the UK and Ireland aren't or didn't work for you. There has to be more to it than the weather?

Pau isn't the daftest place on France for a Brit to move - lots of shared history going back several centuries (Brits going to the spa to take the water, etc etc, Wellington spent some time there.during one of the conflicts.....) and there will be quite a few expats in the surrounding region

That said the lack of language skills would make.life very tough, and it would be hard on teenage kids.

Hi guys, i so appreciate your honesty. To add some perspective. We'll be moving there anyway within 10 years, so it's a bringing forward of retirement plans. I work remotely so work is not an issue. DH's work is flexible.

None of the older grown up kids will find work near here anyway, so they won't be coming home after Uni, so it's a question of whether we stay here so they can visit here in their holidays, or whether we go and the family home is in france.

#4 will go to an international school and will do english A levels, which are hard, but less brutal than the irish leaving cert which is a terminal exam.

So only one of six is genuinely happy and a move is necessary; my question is then do we do two moves, one to somewhere in ireland/britain, and then another move later, or do we just get on with it and go.

I think it is fairer on the majority to do two moves. At this stage I would say within Ireland than the UK. The Leaving Cert is rough but I think keeping them in a familiar system is fairer.

You say you work remotely and DH’s is flexible, but have your employers, if you have them, given the go-ahead? There can be significant tax disadvantages.

Work would be your biggest issue. There's no such thing as working remotely in France for a company that isn't French. This is part of the social security regulations. Your current employer would need to have a French base and you would be fiscally resident within the French system for income tax and social levies (unless you are on secondment or a diplomat). Ask anyone living in France about L'Administration Français and they will roll their eyes at you and shudder.

Then of course there's housing. It's very hard for a French person to rent property even with a perfect dossier, for incomers it's hugely difficult and you will likely need a guarantor.

Then there's language, schooling and regularising your husband's situation. He will need a CdS and proof that he has enough funds to sustain his residency, which I think currently is the SMIC rate per month.

Don't get me wrong, I love France and will be moving there myself in the next couple of years, but I am fluent, have citizenship and an established base.

I don’t know anything about SW France so don’t know what it’s like to live there but I think your kids are at good ages.

My biggest concerns would be your youngest and making friends.

Plus both of your jobs and whether you’re allowed or able to work outside of the UK.

I’d look at the pros and cons and consider moving within the next 2 years but I wouldn’t make any concrete plans over the next 6 months.

Could you afford a small holiday home and visit there regularly?
How often do you visit already?

What about extended family members?
I take it you and DH don’t have to care for parents or anything.

Out of interest @ThisCrazyCat why did you leave the UK for Ireland?

You really need to check the working remotely from France. When I was at work 2 people tried it, one wanted to live in Belgium the other in Dublin. Company said no due to tax complications.

We moved for a year to a tropical place with loads of ex pats. If you are going to do it then consider somewhere that you can work, get visas, and has a good ex pats community. The ex pat community if key to just arriving in a new place. Also consider the ex pat community that has a large British faction. Where we moved had large Russian and Chinese ex pat communities and people tend to stick to their own. It was fun and we didn’t have a problem integrating with ex pats but locals don’t want to know really as you have discovered in Ireland, unless it’s a metropolitan city you will have the same issues anywhere you go. Kids in international school rather than local is also key. Again some of the schools are predominantly from the certain countries and so you have to find one with a large British faction. Unless you are multi lingual in multiple languages you really need to find places with large British ex pat contingents.

It’s a stunning area and Pau is a lovely city. I go to Lourdes every year. But it’s quite remote. Tarbes airport only had limited flights. It’s two hours from Toulouse, which is lovely.

I would guess children who have mental health issues would have had them in any country so a bit unfair to blame Ireland. Of course you have the right to move, but are you saying you’ll leave the 3 older ones in Ireland and move with your 11 year old? Can you afford to keep a place for them or help them launch? They won’t be able to work in France so are you thinking about another English speaking country?

I think if you have a French job (or don’t need one) and your husband and youngest are keen for a change then I guess it’s worth trying out. Your son won’t really make local friends but will have an English speaking school - is that the idea?

OP if you and your family don't speak the language you will struggle.

Bureaucracy is worse in France and you need to have a good command of the language to navigate education, life admin and to find a decent job.

I have been through the French education system and I must say standards are much higher with stricter rules than in England and it is not great for kids that struggle with their mental health or have disabilities (at least he wasn't when I was a pupil!).

Your kids would be lost unless you find an international school/college for them where English is spoken.

It just sounds like you need to live somewhere less rural in England. Do your research and choose a town where people are more welcoming of incomers, where the weather is dryer and also where your kids will have better education and work opportunities.

Yes it’s mad.

Also can we stop using the word 'expats' when talking about Brits who move to other countries...

Funny how people who come here are 'immigrants' but Brits are 'expats'.

The OP would be an immigrant in France which comes with challenges.

I think you need to move back to the UK, I don't know why you didn't do it when it was clear most of the kids were unhappy. France might be convenient for you because you speak the language and have the family home there or whatever - but don't you think the kids have been through enough? What do they think of the idea of moving somewhere where they don't speak the language? Why aren't you prioritising them?

A sort of relative of mine planned to do this with her DD (who’s now a teen) and her partner, wealthy, just before Covid. They looked into it, would’ve loved to have done it but just didn’t work out.

Bureaucracy is mad and education is harder than eg England. Stepdad owned a holiday home in France and was astounded by the bureaucracy. The French aren’t always that friendly either, so you have that to contend with.

Why have you specifically chosen France? Yes you want to retire there but that is totally different from bringing up a child there, especially one who doesn't understand the language. Is it rural France? Is there a risk it will be a bit 'No matter how far we run, there we are' Why not move to somewhere in Ireland that's not so rural?

Different destination same problems.

I think you are off your rocker, yes. If you find things bad for your younger children in terms of education and mental health in Ireland, it will be an awful lot worse in France, I can assure you. If you are the only one in the family who knows any French, I really wouldn’t put your family through it. In my experience, speaking fluent French and having lived and worked there, in particular in Bordeaux, the French are insular and casually nationalistic at the best of times. I would think you would find it extremely difficult to fit in and make a life for yourselves there. As pp suggested, a move away from the countryside would probably be best for you, either in Ireland or the UK.

I think it would be really tough on your 11 year old. The others are basically adults so are not going to be impacted other than where to come for holidays.

Even going to an international school is going to be challenging as they will be in an anglophone bubble while living in France so they will struggle to be competent in French, which makes it harder to make friends outside this bubble of Brits.

A quick google on the school shows it is "hors-contrat" so basically no oversight by the French system. If something goes wrong with the school your child has few options.

You will have to advocate for all the support in the French healthcare system. Even French friends can find that challenging, so don't expect it to be any easier than in Ireland.

Also think about the future. British university fees are insane so where would the child go to college / further training? Back to Ireland? Without a decent level of spoken and written French they might find it challenging to do any kind of post secondary training in France.

On the remote work, other posters are right. You can work remotely but you need to be working for a French company. There are ways around it (e.g. via Porterage) but expect to pay a huge whack in social charges yourself unless you can convince your employer to cover the extra costs (+15% of your current salary). We've been down that road, it is VERY expensive.

I'm Irish and my kids have gone through the French educational system so know both worlds. I love living in semi-rural France and we have had a great experience with work and education. But I came pre-kids. I would try somewhere less rural in Ireland and delay your move to France until your last child finishes secondary.

To care for elderly parents who both died within 2 years of us moving. We should have moved back then, but DH didn't want to. There's no changing the past, so it's just about the next step now. Any move wouldn't happen fast... thinking about renting for a year to see, then a move it if works. Really appreciate the info re working in france.., and bureaucracy etc.

I live in SW France myself and although I speak fluent French, DH is French and DCs are all in the French system, it's quite hard to integrate and make more than passing acquaintances, especially in a rural area.

What do your kids think about the idea?
Do you have any ties in SW France?

There’s nothing wrong with moving to rural Ireland given you’re Irish. But the obvious move for the next 10 years would be either to an Irish city, or U.K.. Until your youngest has finished school and your DH has had time to learn reasonable French.