Three year old refusing bedtime and throwing toys, feeling at breaking point

[Biscuitfrog]

I am really struggling with my three year olds behaviour and feeling incredibly overwhelmed.

She is in the ‘no’ stage and will just look us in the eye if we ask her to do something and tell us no. The biggest struggle we’re having is with bedtime. She has recently got a ‘big girl bed’ and has a gate on her bedroom door so she can’t come out. She has taken to chucking toys out of her room and down the stairs but doesn’t seem phased at all when we remove the toys and leave her in an empty room. I’ve tried (and felt horrendously guilty for!) shouting, we’ve tried giving no reaction at all but a firm ‘no’ and we are consistent with consequences every single time. She is now playing with plug sockets, unscrewing lamps, taking her nappy off and weeing on the carpet and screaming and hitting the walls.

We are moving to a new house next week and have nowhere to store her toys except her new bedroom. I’m dreading it. I know she’ll be up for hours flinging things around and breaking things.

At breaking point and no idea what to try next.

Perhaps if you stay in the room and help her settle?

She needs you. She’s unsettled. She’s trying to get your attention.

Can you try staying with her until she falls asleep? Works so well for us.

Did the bedtime behaviour start when she got her big girl bed and door gate? If so, have you talked to her about how she likes her new bedroom arrangement (in the daytime when she's in a decent mood)? It might be that she's struggling to get used to it and the behaviour is her way of letting you know that she needs some help. Or I wonder if she has any feelings about moving house? Often when kids come across as defiant, they're just trying to create a sense of control for themselves when they're feeling very out of control in terms of what's happening in their life.

Most kids don't behave like that just because - they need us to be curious about what's going on, whilst letting them know that it's not ok to wee on the carpet, play with plug sockets etc.

How long do others stay in the room with their LO’s? She goes to bed at 7:30-8pm and stays up playing whether we’re in the room or not, and will continue to say no when we stay with her. It does seem to make sense as she will continually call us up to fix her blanket etc. This is also an issue during time outs with the throwing and weeing and it doesn’t feel as appropriate to stay in the room with her then?

Yes it seems to have started a few weeks after this as for the first few weeks she didn’t realise she could get out the bed!

You need to be at more involved and put her to bed

Put her to bed and stay with her.
Be very quiet and boring but reassuring.
at first it will take HOURS!

but that is only short term. It won't last forever, she'll learn to sleep. You just need to put in the hours to make that happen.

you are locking your child away...and she displays massive distress. Ditch all the opinions of outsiders and take her to sleep in your bed. Your child is distressed, she might have night terrors, how do you know

I still stay with my 9 year old until he falls asleep. He is scared on his own and I just sit on my phone on the floor for a few mins. I find having an audio book on in the room really helps too

Do you not do story, kiss, cuddle before bed? Surely if you’re there in the room with her you can stop her getting out the bed?

I mean, my DD is 7 and one of us still stays with her until she goes to sleep, except on the rare occasion when she decides to do a solo bedtime.

Maybe instead of time out, you could try time in. Time out sends the message that she's not wanted when she's clearly overwhelmed emotionally, and it doesn't teach her how to regulate her emotions or problem-solve, neither of which 3-year-olds are neurologically capable of doing alone. She needs you to help her regulate by lending her your calm when hers has gone out the window - yes, it's hugely challenging to stay calm when your child is screaming and throwing and so on, so you might need to tag team with your partner. I recommend Loop earplugs for the screaming.

Yes we do dinner, run around at park/walk to burn energy, bath, book, bed with cuddles and kisses and tuck her in her room

I do all that and my two year old sometimes gets out of bed anyway! I have to go downstairs sometimes for a couple of minutes (of screaming) and then come back to finish the settling. If my LO wanted to get out of bed and run around after all the bed time routine I'm not actually sure what I would do...

But how long do you stay with her ? Sounds like you are leaving her too soon. I assume you’ve had problems with toilet training too if she’s still in nappies?

Well maybe instead of leaving the room just stay cuddling until she falls asleep? I used to have to do it, might take around 20mins or so but better than listening to a distressed child breaking their heart!

What time does she wake up in the morning and is she still napping?

She has been toilet trained since 22 months, but nappies for bedtime as she’s not dry through yet

Our bedtime routine takes about 30 minutes after bed so maybe we could spend a bit longer after the put down?

She dropped naps very early before the age of 2, at nursery! She wakes up between 6:45-7:15 every morning and very occasionally closer to 8

My niece was going through this phase.

I babysat and made it very clear to her. I wasn’t playing about with the fuss and performance she’s been giving my sister and BIL, because I had dinner on the way and I wanted to watch the football.

I sat in the corner of her room. Every time she sat up, I just looked at her, raised my eyebrows and shook my head no.

She was asleep within 10 minutes and it broke the habit.

I can try this! Though she never sounds distressed, she just plays alone and then will play with switches etc which is when we begin confiscating and the retaliatory throwing begins! She’s also never crying and laughs when we do come up to her!

Thank you! Think we will give this a try!

Yes I think a gradual withdrawal over a couple of weeks. So sit beside her bed till she falls asleep a few times, then sit further away, then try leaving before she’s asleep etc. You are letting her know it’s safe to fall asleep because you are close. But dont interact with her ..maybe just a shush ..but the point you are making its its quiet time now, no talking ,its time to lie there quietly etc.

Hi OP, my daughter is 3.5 and youngest of 4, her and her siblings all fell asleep with either myself or dad sitting with them, takes about 15-20 mins, I make it really boring though with minimal engagement but I’m there for a cuddle, hair stroke and hand hold which usually helps, she’d be distraught if left alone I think

She sounds very low sleep needs. Both of mine are lower sleep needs and were still napping (just) beyond 2. 10-13h in 24h is a normal, healthy amount of sleep at 3. It’s probably safe to assume your DD is nearer the bottom of this. Alongside all the above advice, I’d also make bedtime 30-45 minutes later. She just doesn’t sound particularly tired from your description - an overtired child fighting sleep will usually be giddy, clingy, overly emotional and quick to cry despite being awake. The fact your DD is happy and playing independently makes me think she needs a later bedtime, or an earlier start.