What time would you expect a three and five-year-old to go to sleep?

[Cookserella]

I have three kids, aged 1, 3 and 5.

The one-year-old goes to bed at 7pm, very easy, straight to sleep by himself.

The other two are a total pain. They share a bedroom which possibly doesn't help, but we've decided we need a total reset on bedtimes as it's taking over our evening.

It occurred to me that they might actually not be going to bed at the correct time. What time would you expect a three-year-old and a five-year-old to be asleep?

All kids have different sleep need so it doesn’t really matter if everyone else’s children on this thread sleep 7-7 if your child’s sleep needs are 10.5 hours. 10-13 hours sleep is the normal range for a three year old. It’s not bad behaviour to resist sleep when you’re not tired enough.

There’s a technique called fading which often works which is that you put them to sleep 15-30 minutes after that (so about 8:45-9:00) so they’re properly tired for bedtime and and should fall asleep without a battle. Then gradually every couple of night bring bedtime forwards by 15 minutes and eventually you’ll hit a time when they start fighting sleep again and then you’ll know the time before is what their natural bedtime should be. It helps by breaking the cycle of fighting bedtime, and also means that if the children are awake for longer in the evening it’s nicer time than battling sleep with them all that time.

I don’t think you can punish a child for not being sleepy though. It’s like your Dh saying you aren’t allowed to see your friend for coffee on Saturday because you didn’t fall asleep before 10pm every night this week. You can’t help if you aren’t tired or if you have someone you’re forced to share a room with who is keeping you awake. I think you have to just sort of accept that at these ages when you have 2 in a room and a baby elsewhere in these temperatures and at the end of a long school year for your 5 year old, bedtime may be a bit tits up. I’d see how it settles in the autumn.

At that age 7 o'clock was bed time for the 2 youngest and 15 minutes later for the eldest has she shared a room with the middle one, it stopped the pair of them messing around.

My 4 year old goes to bed at 5.50 and is usually asleep by 6, my 7 year old goes to bed at 6.30, lights out at 7 and asleep by 7.10. Both wake up about 6 which works for drop offs.

Me too!!! Did I miss it?

Is the consequence in the room with us? 😅😅😅

Very seriously though - I would pay to know

I’d expect them to be in bed and not get out of bed by 7:30. In my experience they always fell asleep pretty quickly after that.

Depends what time they need to be awake in the morning and every child is different. I found time before 8pm was pointless as they wouldn’t settle and they would get up too early, so typically book at 8 worked for me

The point is the vast, vast majority of children are bothered if you do it properly. That's how primary teachers control classes (hundreds of children over their career) - it's not through sanctions and consequences. And if you do it properly it certainly doesn't upset them. There is absolutely no doubt that good teaching and behaviour management comes with practice and is a skill but it's rarely spoken about that parenting is the same, which seems completely illogical to me. Anyway, bowing out as don't want to derail.

In bed by 7pm with lights out. Asleep by 7:30. Good luck xxx

I had to bring my 4/5 year olds bedtime forward from 7.30 to 6.30 when they started school as tiredness was affecting behaviour.

Mine have been going to bed at 7.30 since then were born, now 9 and 6. It was near impossible to get them to sleep at the start but that's always been the expectation.

Yes,it was a struggle, and evenings didn't exist for us for a long time, but that's parenting.

Exactly the same as us. I simply find it impossible to do it any earlier when you factor in dinner and bath after getting home around 6ish.

DD (5) goes at 7pm and pretty much alway has from having at set bedtime around 6 months old or so. DS (9) moved to 7.30 around age 6 and 8pm around age 8.

7pm sounds really early for a 5yo, especially when its so warm and light out.

I know you want your evenings but you can't force someone to sleep when they're not ready.

definitely by 8

If you're waking your 5 yr old for school, I think he's not getting enough sleep bless him. Do you have positive reinforcement for staying in bed? I also wonder if an audio book or music would keep them still (my dd has to have one or she gets bored and will begin a game with her toys etc which keeps her awake). You could try a sticker chart and for a week not coming downstairs or getting out of bed then you reward with something. Have you also got black out blinds and is the room set up so that it helps them sleep? Some people also find magnesium supplements support better sleep. If they're keeping one another up, could you find a cheap way to divide the room - a screen or something so they can't actively wind each other up...

@Clarsh you probably don’t need me to point out that school is vastly different to home and I am saying that with my teacher hat on. I can absolutely control thirty children at a time, some of them with very complex needs, but my own children regularly push me to the brink and beyond!

My ds has a Yoto player and I have to turn it off after 830; it just keeps him awake. Dd crashes no problem though.

Yeah this is more normal and realistic and what we do.

I second this advice, it’s really good.

my 14 month olds bedtime has been 8pm and wake time 6am with 1hr 45 mins of naps since we sleep trained at 5 months old for independent sleep. He’s out like a light at 8pm with no fuss or dysregulation; that is just the time that he’s healthily tired for bed. That’s just him.

He will not sleep more than that. If I let him sleep more than that during the day he’s awake playing with his teddy in his cot til 8:15 or he wakes around midnight and sits chuntering for 15-30 mins.

i advise you do what this poster suggests, or else decide on what time you want him up in the morning, and put bedtime 10.5 hours before that.

We're English and I totally agree! I have a 6 and 2 year old, 6 year old asleep by 9pm and 2 year old.by about 8.15/8.30. I couldn't possibly manage it any earlier as we're not all home until 6.30pm and then we need to do dinner, a little downtime, bath/shower, stories. They still wake up about 7am/7.30am and are full of energy! There's no we'd manage a 7/7.30pm bedtime, we've never done it!

My 4 year old is a solid -8.15-9pm bedtime. Some children are just wired differently, there's no way she'd ever be asleep before 8 unless she'd done an all nighter the night before! She did drop her nap before 2 though so I think it's just who she is much to my dismay 😅 she wakes around 7 and is full of energy....

It has shown me how blissfully different some peoples parenting worlds must be, if you ‘clock off’ at 7 and don’t ’clock on’ until 7 the next morning (some with a nap in there too …)

Parenting is never easy but some definitely have an easier time of it if they have a child with high sleep needs, or children who have a wake up time correlating to the time they went to bed.

DD crashed at 6 tonight so I’m fully expecting a 5 am start 😩

10-11 hours is pretty normal for night time sleep, so if they are getting up at 7.30am I'd aim for an 8.30pm bedtime.

Meanwhile, my similar aged kids have only just gone to sleep. Doesn’t bother us. It’s been a lovely evening of eating and playing outside. Bedtime routine is 20 minute max, especially in summer, to limit opportunity for dicking about. They’d probably be asleep about 30 minutes earlier on a school night, maybe in bed by 8pm and asleep by 8:15-8:20ish. Will be up between 6:30am and 7am. I don’t know a single 5 yo IRL who is asleep by 6-7pm.

Mine are in bed by 7.30, and if they start sneaking downstairs or start messing about I'm very strict and just tell them to go back into their beds. If they aren't sleepy they can look at/ read books in bed but don't disturb me. They have 4 and almost 6