Four-year-old with low confidence, rigid thinking and destructive behaviour at home

[Lydia07]

I have 2 boys, a 4yo and a 2yo. The 4yo has always struggled with low confidence despite us constantly telling him he is brave and strong, he can do hard things. He doesn’t seem to be able to tolerate failure.

There’s a few ways in which this presents:

1. he flat out refuses to try new foods - he’s always been a picky eater.
2. he destroys things when upset - on Friday he broke my heart when he pulled all the flower heads off my chives and pulled the strawberries out of the ground because he wanted to water the garden and I told him I’d already done it
3. he refuses to take part in adult led activities, especially in sport (I’m terrified of him starting school this year), so we can’t take him to swimming or football classes (even though he loves both)
4. he refuses to say sorry, ever
5. he loves Lego but needs instructions to do anything. He won’t even try to use his imagination to build something
6. same kind of thing, he never draws. He just says he doesn’t know what to draw, he can’t do it. He loves colouring in, but won’t draw anything from his imagination, even getting him to copy something I’ve drawn is a challenge
7. he flat out refuses to get himself dressed in the mornings and never ever puts on his own shoes
8. he has very black and white thinking, lots of catastrophising, ‘I can’t do it, I’ll never be able to and I’m never going to try ever again’

We try to gentle parent in our household. We name feelings, validate, wait for him to calm down and explain why a behaviour was a bad choice and what we can all do differently next time. We try to teach deep breathing and other coping techniques but he refuses to engage with any of it. Instead he just doubles down. He says he will do it again, that he’s not sorry. I can feel the anger bubbling up inside me then, I can feel my 2yo watching all of this (who already is a hitter) and I want to scream! I don’t. I stay calm, I offer him space or cuddles (he chooses cuddles) and I try again to talk with him about it later.

But nothing ever changes. I should say, my 2yo has a speech delay and gets frustrated easily (hence the hitting which we’re working on). When this happens my 4yo doesn’t rise to it. He doesn’t hit back, he just comes and tells me. My 4yo is also in preschool with a kid exhibiting VERY challenging behaviour which my son internalises. He doesn’t tell the teacher, he just quietly absorbs all the hurt and then it comes out at home.

My hope is that once we’re away from that preschool it will improve but deep down I know that the picky eating, the low confidence, the refusal to engage with self-regulation practices, that’s been with us his whole life. I want to have him assessed but my husband thinks he’s just being a normal 4yo.

I don’t know what to do. I try to hold firm
boundaries but when it comes to him destroying things I’m a bit lost for what the consequences should be. It feels like there should be one but I don’t know what.

Sorry for the long post but there’s so much more, I just feel so desperate.

This in spades. Why does it matter if he doesn't draw from imagination? He's 4. Leave him alone to do his colouring in. Mine refused point blank to do football but he chose to do karate as long as I did the class with him. I didn't give it another thought. Children have preferences just the same as anyone else.

"Deep breathing and coping techniques" Really !! He's 4.

He sounds like a completely normal 4yo. Just tell him off for picking the heads off your chives.

And "it broke your heart" !!! Don't be absurd.

The flowers happened because I went inside to get something and he was outside with his grandmother. She either didn’t notice or didn’t stop him but when I came out the flowers were strewn everywhere

It’s fine that he doesn’t enjoy drawing, not all kids do, same with highly structured classes and fussy eating at age 4 is so common. If he eats a decent enough variety of stuff to get everything he needs and takes a multivitamin then he’ll be fine.

Deep breathing and coping techniques sound a bit too grown up for such a little boy. And kids love attention, especially ones competing with a toddler sibling for mummy’s attention. The 1:1 time and cuddles he gets for the poor behaviour won’t be incentivising him to make better choices. I’d make it very clear he’s upset you, I’m not saying scream at him or anything, but he should know that pulling up your flowers makes you cross and upset. If it were my DS he’d then have do some thinking time on his own (aka time out) and then we’d talk about it after - this is also what his preschool and now reception class do so it’s consistent.

I also love the idea of a marble jar for gold behaviour / a way of getting him to do things like getting dressed.

For youngest could you look into private speech therapy- DS had it at 3 and it was amazing, and there were such improvements in his behaviour once he could be easily understood.

I agree with the posters saying that your own language and emotions sound very, well, emotional. I just read your follow up where you talk about ‘re parenting’ yourself: this sounds quite intense and is probably having a big impact on how you approach being a parent now.

You come across, frankly, like you’re repeating out loud a whole lot of gentle parenting / therapy books that you’ve read. It doesn’t ring true, tbh, and kids pick up on this. I wonder if you are maybe over-explaining situations to him? Maybe too much explanation, considering, talking through, getting deep and meaningful - when a short, sharp ‘get away from those flowers NOW’ might have more impact?

It’s okay to show anger now and then. You are only human. If you’ve been poorly parented yourself, you may be over correcting in response to this. I know when I read Unconditional Parenting it absolutely blew my mind, and had me questioning a whole lot of things I’d been taught by my parents. I have done some things differently as a result.

So what did you do when you saw the flowers strewn everywhere? (sorry if I’ve missed this)

I have a 4 year old DS and I would have shouted at him for that kind of naughty behaviour and then made him pick up all the flower heads to put in the bin. Then a more severe consequence like straight up to his room until he is ready to apologise.

I’m not a shouty parent and as a result, when I do shout, the kids understand that I’m serious. Gentle parenting has its place but my DS responds much better to clear instructions and boundaries. I agree with other PP’s that maybe your expectations of him are too high.

Bloody hell OP. If one of my children had pulled ONE flower up in my view . (and at 4 they would be in view) They would have been physically removed and placed in their room and told their behaviour was unacceptable. They would be told to stay there until they were ready to apologise. If no apology forthcoming then a sanction would be imposed. I have no Idea what ‘gentle parenting’ is - but it sounds like you are trying to follow some kind of made-up philosophy from a book - almost certainly written by someone who has never actually raised children themselves but thinks they know better than those of us who have.
Be a parent. All this bloody daft ‘discussing’ with a four year old. Stop giving him the driving seat .

‘It’s not come on darling put your shoes on and we can go to the park’ (mum)
No (child)
Dont you want to go to the park ? (mum)
No (child)
….. continuous persuading and bargaining then ensues between you both while you wrap yourself in knots trying to get him to ‘express himself’ and ‘name his emotions’ around his rreluctance to do as he’s asked.

At this age he needs to do as told save the negotiations for teen years !!

What needs to happen.
Come on darling we are going to the park. Wellies or trainers ?
No.
Yes, we are going to the park . Wellies of trainers . Quick quick or I’ll choose for you.

This normally does the trick - but if not then pick child up and place in car seat and attach footwaar. Or place in a chair and do it.
stop giving him the options to call the shots and stop naval gazing into the psyche of a 4 year old. It’s not that hard. You say what’s happening. He does it. It’s not a debate.
Mine are now all mid 20s to mid 30s. I have never hit them. Rarely had to punish in any way. Most importantly they have NEVER hit one another and have and continue to be kind to each other. THAT is my definition of ‘gentle parenting’ . Heavy emphasis on kindness. Firm non negotiable instructions at this age and lots of cuddles and praise for good behaviour and immediate consequences for bad.

Whilst challenging behaviour can be quite common at 4 I think never drawing a picture, not participating in adult led classes and not being able to play with lego imaginatively is less common and I do think an Autism assessment would be helpful here. Again with picky eating it can be part of normal development but also can indicate sensory processing issues and refusing to try anything new at all is on the more extreme end. Getting dressed - can he physically do it but doesn't or can he not do it yet? My youngest has ADHD as well as Autism and avoids tasks like getting dressed that feel hard or boring, but he will often do it if we turn it into a game e.g. a race.

You might want to be a gentle parent but I don’t think your boy needs a gentle parent, it’s far too emotionally manipulative. Try more straightforward/black and white approaches. Some kids need to be left alone to calm down, as another person just winds them up.

As for the flower thing - I think all of us have a story where a kid did something that was quite destructive because someone didn’t catch them in time, but was perfectly rational in their little minds. Just read some of the stories on here about what kids have done with tubs of Sudocrem and you’ll be pleased it’ just flowers!

Thank you for sharing your view. I came on here for help and support. What a stranger thinks of me isn't something I lose sleep over, but I do hope whatever is causing you so much frustration gets better soon.

This is such a great idea thank you, I will definitely be trying this!

I can’t comment very much but I do think talking about how things are going to be done next time/in the future would have been meaningless to my 4 year old. Preschoolers live in the moment, that’s what is cool about them, when they are cool.

Right, I actually think that the main issue here is not your son but the older members of the family! How the Jeff does someone not notice/not intervene/not tell you? They are either feeble or kind of passively hate you (sorry).

Sounds like it would be good to get on the same page with your husband and keep your distance from the grannies.

Good books are The Explosive Child and 10 Days to a Less Defiant Child (Bernstein) - that's good on relatives and siblings too. Lots of techniques in those.

NVR ie also good. Look up Yvonne Newbold online.

This is good advice. Make notes of which activities make you feel like life is easy or your kid is relaxed. Do more of those.
don’t worry about drawing, park, whatever. Follow what makes your child confident.

https://amzn.eu/d/02zGx9sM also I think you might get a laugh from this book in which Daisy does something very similar. DS might really relate to Daisy I think. They used to make me laugh so much when my DD had had a Hulk! Smash! moment.

Amazing, thank you. I will definitely look at those books. The Granny debate is an ongoing one in my mind. Fortunately, we don’t live close to them so it’s not an issue very often

My mum and sister are perfectly nice people but they just did NOT get what parenting a child like this was like, so we had to keep our distance and spend more time with people who did get it.

They are actually a bit better now she's older but my god the "oh you should just..." "I would never..."

And DMIL used to laugh at the destruction. She's lucky I love her tbh!

The Explosive Child is Ross Greene. It's much more often mentioned than the other one, but I liked Jeffrey Bernstein's advice better because it told you what to actually do and try. I still use his techniques and DD is 13!

I don't think that gentle parenting helps children with big feelings at all. He needs you to regulate for him. Were you there when he was pulling the flowers off your chives, why didn't you physically stop him? You need to be a bit more matter of fact with him and consequences on repeat.

In terms of fussiness some kids have this, maybe he has afraid? Maybe he is neurodiverse.

You can't force him to be less fussy, I have one incredibly fussy eater who is now a teen and it's been hard work and there are still so many things they won't eat but we work around it and include lots of the good things they do eat.

With things like drawing, maybe he isn't developmentally ready yet. It's been a few years since mine were little but I remember that the foundation stage involved 'mark making' and more playful activities rather than specific drawings / letters. Just let him make a mess with finger paints or something.

As others have said, get him doing things he can do and does enjoy and praise him for that. My fussy child was late at everything including fine motor control but as long as you see progress over time it's not a massive issue.

It sounds like he gets masses of attention when he misbehaves, with you sitting with him 1:1 after he’s done something you don’t like. Try giving less attention to behaviour you don’t want and more to behaviour you do want, so that he understands being bad isn’t the way to draw your focus. If he is deceptively mature seeming, it’s easy to see his ‘good’ behaviour as the norm, what you expect, and therefore not reward it, but if you are trying to remodel his thinking about behaviour, you need to make sure you are rewarding what he does well, so it gets more attention than when things go wrong.

I had to do a 180 on all my gentle parenting with my DC, they need a straight forward 'We do not do xyz' 'I will stop xyz if you continue' unless they ask for more information on why, I don't provide it.
The more words you use the less they are listening.

Of course at other calm, not related times we talk about feelings, behaviours etc.

So research how to parent a neurodiverse child, some areas of gentle parenting can lap in here as well, it doesn't mean your DC is neurodiverse as these techniques can work for several reasons but you may find a combination of the two a better fit.

Hello
I work with young children, I would say try the marble in the jar. Make it a small enough jar that he achieves the prize fairly quickly. Let him choose the “prize” he is working towards.
that is very important. He may like this approach and then decide he doesn’t and wants something else eg collecting tokens/making puzzle etc

Can he dress himself easily? Or does he struggle with the motor skills? I actually used to help my child at that age when he was tired, just like I would hope someone would help me when I was tired with something. Sometimes he did it himself, sometimes not. No big deal. If he struggles with the motor skills/planning that will just need more time and teaching.

Dont worry about group lessons or drawing too much at this point. That’s not too unusual.

Food wise is he gaining enough weight? Maybe get that checked.
Might be worth having a chat with the GP as they can put you on a wait list for ASD/ADHD assessment which can be a few years, and you can always come off it if you want. Sometimes they won’t start the process until 7 anyway.

Thank you. I would actually say that what you described there ‘is’ gentle parenting as I know it. I am cautious about slipping into permissive parenting, which is so often mistaken for gentle parenting, so I agree that I should possibly use fewer words.

Do you have a partner or person you live with to act as a mirror?
my partner is really helpful at pointing out when I think I’m doing great parenting but it’s actually crap - usually around consistency and age appropriate explanations.
i do the same for him on other points and I think we both need the feedback! And are becoming more competent and confident with time.
The worst behaved children I know are the ones where one parent is way too involved and the other is taking a back seat.

No real advice, as there's plenty of that up thread, but I just wanted to say that your 4 year old son sounds exactly like my also 4 year old son. His nursery haven't flagged up any suspicions of ND, but I do still wonder. Time will tell I guess. Conversely I can't wait for him to go to school. The structure and the learning to keep his mind busy will be so good for him.

This.

I was a ‘gentle’ parent up to a point. You can validate feelings and float around being Miss Honey all day long but I’m afraid sometimes they do just need a quick motherly telling off.