Daughter no longer wanting to take the grammar 11+plus exam.. what to do?

[Zaina89]

Didn't know where to post this.
so my daughter is 10 (11 in September)
this is her second year she has been in 11+ 1-1 tuition.
she has been doing well, we have registered her for to take the exam this upcoming September.
me and my husband have never forced her into the tuition or taking the exam, when we noticed she was quite academic and enjoyed learning and school we talked about grammar school and when she was old enough we asked her if she would like to try the tuition and see how it goes, but that she isn’t being forced and she could stop whenever she didn’t want to do it or felt like it was to much for her.

she has been doing well and this is her 2nd year, the only problem she has is she is quite slow ( takes time to work things out etc) even though she has been doing well with the learning she struggles with managing the time. If I remember rightly in parts of the exam she has about 9 minutes to answer 22 questions, and it has now been changed, they used to do the entire paper at once and now it has been split into sections and some sections only have about 30 seconds to answer the question.

she recently did her first mock test, she only scored 37% and missed out 30 questions. Her tuition teacher didn’t tell my daughter her results from the mock and instead pulled me to one side and said she thought it was best we didn’t tell my daughter because she doesn’t want her to feel “devalued”.

when my daughter left from the exam that day she said she did find it extremely difficult in the sense she really struggled with the time and missed out so many questions because she didn’t have enough time.
my daughter knew something wasn’t right because the tuition teacher told her she would tell her her results but she instead told me.
she asked me to tell her, her results so I did and she got very upset and said she feels like it’s to much pressure and that she feels we are disappointed with her.

it’s been a week since her test and she’s still down about it, she’s been going through a lot at school as well with an issue of a girl being mean. I have been feeling awful but we decided that she would take the next mock test in a month or so and see how that goes. I asked her today to be honest with me and she said that she really doesn’t feel like she wants to do this anymore or go ahead and take the exam, that she’s very tired and she feels it’s to much pressure.

I honestly don’t know what to do for the best, I want to respect her wishes but at the same time I don’t want her to just give up easily. I don’t know whether she should finish the next mock and see what her results are and if she’s still at this mark then to leave it, or because she’s come this far to just let her sit the exam ( she’s due to take it this September). Or whether we should just take her out and not let her take the test and just put her back into normal tuition.

what would you do?
we do live in a area with good secondary schools, that’s not the issue.

she is currently doing a lot, learning Arabic after school 5 days a week for an hour, on top of schooling and then on Saturday’s 1 and a half hours 11 plus tuition. I feel like an awful mum and like this is all my fault for suggesting this.

Tell her she should do it but it's no problem if she doesn't get the required grades or do well as it doesn't matter to you. But it is once in a lifetime opportunity so she should try but don't tell her that obviously, keep it very light.

What do you do? You give her permission to stop. It's not quitting. It's recognising that this is too difficult for her. Does she really have to have so many Arabic lessons? That's a lot on top of school every day. What does she do for fun?

The other thing I’d say is - it’s pretty brave of your dd to tell you how she feels. If she feels “heard” then you gain so much - a child who can bring you her worries, have a sensible conversation how to address those worries, and then be involved in (or entirely own!) the decision of what happens next. What she learns from this is probably as important as any 11+ exam.

Go and lurk on the “but we took you to stately homes” threads. Parenting is more than just the tangible things you provide and the opportunities you create. You’re not letting her give up - you’re recognising that this isn’t the moment to push her; she’s done enough and slogging further could actually be emotionally damaging - even if she manages to pass.

A girl raised with choices is a girl who has self-esteem as an adult.

Our experience:
Child is bright, learning comes easy, but doesn't like pressure.

We did some 11+ tutoring and child went for test at a super competitive grammar. They didn't like it. Didn't pass the test so that worked out OK.

We then went for a high achieving school, quite strict. Child wasn't happy there.
So we moved to the standard (still 'good') school.

The jury is still out on the outcome, but the danger was our child losing the desire to learn because they hated the environment. I think a bright child will do well academically in a school that they are comfortable in.

On the flip side - there is a danger in any school that they get into the wrong crowd.

Sounds like she’s a very intelligent kid. Why is she learning Arabic? Genie my curious

Keep your word to her. You told her she could stop. She’s told you she wants to stop and explained why.

Also, as someone who went to grammar school, it is high pressure, expectations are high and comparisons to peers constant. From what she’s saying, I don’t think it will necessarily be the right environment for her. She may flourish elsewhere.

ah just stop it. Let her take the 11+ exam if she wants, or leave it. She's already done over a year of prep which is a lot. It sounds like grammar might not be for her - imagine how awful she'd feel if always trying so hard to keep up. You say you've got other good schools around you - that's ideal.

thank you for your replies.
she is learning Arabic for religious reasons. I didn’t mention this to my husband as well as we had a conversation this morning and I remember being under a lot of pressure with it and I learned at 20 years old.
she is doing 5 days a week because her teacher ( who taught me, my son is being taught by a different teacher, has been taught by many and I have never found a teacher as good as her, and as caring and as patient) is now elderly and having health conditions, my daughter is almost finished with the Quran now and not much left and my daughter is her last student and won’t be taking anymore students on after her now so she wants her to finish quickly because she’s not well.

saying all this now though I do completely get everyone’s points and I do feel awful realizing that she does do so,so much and no wonder she is struggling with the tuition.

this is her second year doing the tuition, I have heard different things, my husbands clients daughter only did it for a year and seemed shocked dd has been doing it for 2 years.
however, other students my daughters tuition teacher currently has has been studying for this for over 3 years and my daughter feels this has put her behind when she spoke to the other student.

the reason I am confused is I don’t just want her to give up because of the score on her mock test, and not sure with it only being 3 months away if I should convince her to take the test so she can atleast say she’s tried after all this hard work and effort she’s put in to get to this point. I do completely respect my daughters choice though.
I have definitely decided in my mind even if she does past the test that it’s not the place for her after how upset and stressed she’s been the last week.

regarding the tuition teacher I am having my doubts about her,
my husband is a builder and she was his client, that’s how we found out about her tutoring because she is a teacher and my husband was telling her how we want our daughter to take the 11+ and she offered to tutor her.
she is just saying “ we will see how she gets on at the next mock test” when I raised my concerns about her being so far off the pass mark. but to my understanding from reading forums at this point kids should be getting around 80/85% at this stage in mock tests? So I’m just wondering why she is isn’t being honest and saying we’ll see at the next mock test.

I did have this awful thought this morning ( husband said it too before I said it) that maybe she knows dd is under pressure and not coping well but is saying we’ll wait and see at the next mock test what happens because she doesn’t want to loose her. My son who is almost 9 also tutors with her at the same time as dd ( they both do it together alone with the teacher) but he only does normal tuition as he wouldn’t be able to cope with the 11+.

Wow I wouldn't have done 5 hours of Arabic a week during 11+ year! She sounds capable since she's Exceeding in maths and English in school. Could be a case of burnout as really in 11+ year you needed to lessen other activities to ensure downtime. She sounds under pressure to do well, she needs to know that you TRULY think that the outcome doesn't matter. We're in Bucks so under Grammar system and made sure our daughter knew that 11+ was all about determining which school would suit her best.

If you’ve decided it’s not the right school for her then why are you thinking about trying to persuade to take the test?

Just leave the poor girl alone and let her stop if she wants to. You promised her that she could.

No 10yo needs to spend her evenings learning a very difficult language “for religious reasons”. At that age it’s your religion, not hers, and all it’s achieving is adding to the intolerable pressure she is under.

You and your husband need to sit down and have a proper discussion, because your whole approach to this child needs an overhaul. She’s a little girl, not a projection of your wishes and ambitions.

Totally agree.

Honestly, I used to teach y5/6 in a prep school and with 37% at this point she is highly unlikely to improve that much in the next 3 months before the exam. Unless you run a boot camp for speed over the summer. Which personally I wouldn’t recommend!

she’s had a lot of tutoring and is still way off where she needs to be. Doesn’t mean she’s not bright, just that speed isn’t her thing and unfortunately it needs to be for 11+.

Let her quit. Otherwise she is likely to fail and that can massively knock her confidence. The tutoring hasn’t been wasted, she will have improved her logical reasoning, vocabulary and test technique.

Please don't make her the one always struggling to catch up at a selective school! If she's in a high set at an ordinary comprehensive, she will do fine...

Just been through the process.

Still to early to make a decision and half of the work they are being tested on hasn't been covered at school

Keep it fun, don't ask about grades but focus on what needs to be sorted eg, reading while question, timing

But ... It only gets harder particularly with summer work. So if she doesn't want to do it .. I wouldn't push it. Particularly if not wanting grammar

My son took it in his stride. But other kids were having panic attacks.... Being sick in the exam.... Crying. The stories were awful!

So my advice is keep it low key for the next while. But ... You can't push it.

My son decided grammar wasn't right (which I fully supported throughout) but he wanted to do the process.

Some kids learnt how to fail as it was so awful experience. Some did well and got what they wanted. Some tried but didn't get their first choice ...

Good luck!

Hi. I suggest you get her formally assessed by a Speech and language therapist. They don't just cover how you speak but also things like working memory and how you pick up what people say to you (receptive language). My daughter turned out to have a clinical disorder and we had no idea.

Dyslexia assessment is a good idea too but I would go for a more general ed psych assessment to see if anything else is hindering her.

But anyway, it is probably best to drop the whole 11+ thing.

I think your suspicions are right- she wants to continue tutoring your daughter because she doenst want to loose the income. Any decent tutor would be honest with you at this stage and work with whats in the best interests of the child. Continuing to push her is not in her best interests.

I think I’d withdraw her from the test OP. The pressure can’t be good for her.

If you’re concerned about her learning you could have her assessed by an educational psychologist. It may pick up any areas of difficulty. You can be very bright and have slow processing for example, or poor working memory.

No 10yo needs to spend her evenings learning a very difficult language “for religious reasons”. At that age it’s your religion, not hers, and all it’s achieving is adding to the intolerable pressure she is under.
You and your husband need to sit down and have a proper discussion, because your whole approach to this child needs an overhaul. She’s a little girl, not a projection of your wishes and ambitions.

I have to be honest and say, that whilst this has been expressed somewhat more bluntly than I might have done, this is what I think too.

Learning a difficult language in this way presupposes that she will choose this religion for herself but no-one can know that. When she is old enough to make a mature choice about this she can choose to learn Arabic if she wishes.

What is happening here is that she is learning a language that she may not need and that is putting her under pressure when she should be enjoying her childhood.

She is telling you it is all too much and I hope you can find a way of easing the pressure on her.

This is all way too much!

She is not going to pass and you will all get more stressed and unhappy in the run up. She will lose confidence and learn the opposite of what you want her to take away - that even putting hours of work in and making sacrifices leads to failure.

There is also a risk that she will feel that whatever school she does end up at is the less good option and be less excited about transition as a result.

I would stop all the 11+ stuff and put your energies into getting her confident and happy about your non grammar options.

You sound like good and caring parents who have fallen into a rabbit hole and can't see the wood for the trees.

Loads of us don't go down this 11+ road for many reasons but still have high achieving dc who have been well supported and thrived at their local comp. There are several ways to skin a cat.

Just don’t make her take it. Sounds like she’s not suited for the exam and won’t do well.

This is all way too much pressure poor child just withdraw

I’ve got five who went through tutoring for 11+ and if she getting most of the questions right that’s fantastic, the timing can come afterwards. Our tutor would gently discourage anyone at Easter in Y5 who consistently wasn’t getting the right answers, but I had one who was slow, they speeded up towards the summer and went on to pass. My step kids go to the local comp and while I would have been ok with it if any of mine hadn’t passed I’m so glad they all did grammar, fighting in the classrooms and other severe behaviour issues just never happened at grammar school but my step kids often complain about disruptive behaviour, who knows what’s right but it would be a shame to miss out when she’s already comes so far. I’d encourage her to continue but keep reminding her it’s ok if she doesn’t pass, i didn’t even tell my kids their actual score until they were almost adults to avoid comparisons. Good luck, it’s a difficult stage but I firmly believe secondary school should be a parental decision not one for children to make.