My ds doesn’t seem to understand consequences

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Maybe this is normal, I don’t know.

DS(5) attacked someone at school quite badly. We were meant to be going for ice cream as a treat; obviously not going now. Ds doesn’t seem to understand that he did something wrong so isn’t getting a treat. Doesn’t seem bothered about what he do just just the ice cream. Is this normal? Quite upset about it.

Some children are much less motivated by punishments and bribes than other children. One of mine pretty much never misbehaves, because of the consequences. The other pretty much ignores both punishments and rewards.

That's not as a result of parenting - I tried all of the same stuff on the second. She just fundamentally doesn't care.

So what is his actual consequence? He's had a nice chat with you and that's it?

What's done is done now but I wouldn't be surprised if he did it again because nothing really bad (to him) happened after.

I don’t think that’s quite what’s happened. But it is possible you’re right and I was too gentle. Equally, had I imposed a harsher punishment many would have said it was too harsh and not directly linked to the behaviour. It isn’t always possible to get things exactly right, sometimes you can only follow your instincts and do what seems right to you as a parent.

The thing is @Happytaytos i don’t think in that moment where he’s wanting to lash out he’d stop and think ‘hmm, best not, mum will take the TV away.’ I think it has to come somewhere deeper than that.

He has had a time out at school, I’ve been involved and I revoked a treat he was going to have. I have also told him (quite firmly as it happens) that irrespective of provocation or feelings or upset we do not hit. If it becomes a recurring problem then indeed we will have to think about other consequences; for a one off (and it is nearly May, he’s been at school since September) I am going to leave it there for now.

No but he might not get to that point because he'll not want to lose TV. Worked for both of mine when they have done things at school or home. Neither has ever hit anyone at school, but I would go nuclear!

No one is saying you should have taken him for an ice cream but he didnt seem to see why you said no - you said

yes obv no treat and straight home and no park

but to find out why he did what he did. To talk about behaviour and enforce no hitting

taking away an ice cream isn’t a big deal

he knows he will get one another day or at home

he needs to say sorry and mean it to the other child. To make a card. Maybe a small present from his pocket money or earning money via jobs

I think you’ve handled it fine but were possibly looking at the problem the wrong way round when you posted?
It’s not the he didn’t understand the consequence but that he didn’t understand why his actions warranted the consequences.
You’ve obviously explained this to him now.

I do think some gesture of apology like a picture or just getting him to practice with you how he will apologise to the other child would be a good idea, not as a consequence or punishment but just because that is a life skill I feel is good to teach them.

Ridiculous, you can't punish a child into feeling empathy, that's not how empathy works I'm afraid. To encourage empathy you need to get the child thinking about how the other child felt. It's not something you can force and some kids struggle much more than others to put themselves in someone else's shoes.

You're fine OP, there will have been consequences at school. He didn't get to go to the park or ice cream. You've spoken to him about what he did. Forcing him to say sorry if he doesn't feel it is pointless. Taking something away for a week will not change his behaviour because he won't remember the punishment in the moment. But my god people love to punish on here and think you can just punish and punish a child into being a good, kind, well behaved child - it's wild!

Talking to him about how he could have handled things differently is great OP. I'd also maybe have talked to him about a time he got hurt. Seen if he could remember how he felt, that it wasn't very nice, that it made him very upset. Then asked him how he thinks the other child felt when he hurt them. See if I could help build a bit of empathy. Of course that might depend on how aggrieved he feels about whatever the other child did!

He's 5 OP and he's impulsive. He did a bad thing. Be cross and disappointed and then move on. Let school manage his behaviour at school. You're good.

Perhaps if more parents did put actual consequences in for poor behaviour, schools wouldn't be seeing the behaviour they are.

Thanks @sayitisntsoo thats very kind.

Actual consequences are a difficult one sometimes. I think they can be used and they can be used to encourage or to deter. That’s all fine: where it falls down are instances like this when the child is a) very young (so not receiving pocket money or has a valuable item like a phone) and b) is acting on impulse rather than actually regulating their behaviour.

DS needs to learn an appropriate way of managing his frustration; that’s the gist of it. Am I going to teach him that by banning screen time for a week which wouldn’t kick in until Friday anyway … honestly and genuinely I don’t think I would. Will the missed treat and ice cream teach him this? Probably not but at least it will (hopefully) reinforce that it was serious and that it was seen as such by me.

You said he attacked someone quite badly - kicking ? Punching ?

sounds like a big fight and not just a squabble as some kids do

was this at break time ?

how is the other child - I’m guessing you don’t get told who it is but sure your child will tell you

what set his attack off ?

And think you said you discussed with DS how can do things differently

There's no right answer, it really depends on the child.

What I do in similar situations with my son who seems to ignore consequences is listen to the teacher and find out what exactly they know, then ask if there's anything they'd like me to do at home (the answer is always no) then I mention it to my son in an "oh dear" kind of way on the way home, but don't expect anything from him at that stage.

At home we have pre printed "sorry" cards where you can circle, draw and colour in red on a stick person what happened and how the other person felt, as well as a space to write what you'll do next time. We can get one out after he's had dinner, toilet and got ready for bed, as in his case that's when he's in listening mode more as he doesn't have any more demands for the day.

It was still good before he could write as we could fill it in together without any demand avoidance kicking in and out makes a visual record of what happened. Also it's quite positive as in how can he stop it next time, rather than punishment based. This works in place of punishment because he doesn't actually want to hurt children in the first place, it's usually a regulation issue, which punishment actually exacerbated. Discussing what to do instead helps more.

Then after filling it in he can take it to school and give it to the person as an apology if he wants, which he always does. I also separately report back to the teacher his explanation, as there's usually a "reason" why he did it. Then they can put things in place like he stays at the front of the queue or goes to the reading corner for 5 minutes after lunch rather than sitting on the carpet.

Yes on paper it sounds like it's consequence free, but it works, it maintains trust and takes the emotion out of it on my side, it gets the information needed for us to help him and him to help himself, and even the other child gets a proper rather than a forced apology. If your child sounds similar then you can take elements too.

We also have"thank you" and "ouch" cards to cover other situations, he can write them all himself now he's 6.

My ds struggled to link consequences to actions at that age. So while like you I wouldn't have gone for an ice cream, he really wouldn't be able to link the loss of a treat to his actions. It's too abstract and far away from the event. Also long term screen bans and similar had no impact on his behaviour as, in the moment, he never thought about the consequences. I think the only purpose was to make me / others think I was doing something. What really worked was helping him manage his emotions alongside teaching to understand other people's feelings / perspective. To that end a sorry card might be a good thing to do.

I think I would have said something like.

‘We need to go home now and draw a picture to give to Bobby to say sorry for hurting him. That means we won’t have time to go to the park on your bike or have an ice-cream’.

I think small children are naturally quite egocentric, I know my son would have not quite made the link at that age. They’re all different but maybe a separate chat about what happened and how it made the other child feel and that it is wrong to hurt others is needed.

He is farctoo young for punishments extending to a week. I think some posters have forgotten that this lad is 5 yrs old. Week long punishments are for Y6 not Reception age children. You have done what you can, OP. Draw a line under it now, except for reminders at the school door to 'be kind'.

If they've never hit anyone, you can't possibly know that the threat of no TV would stop it happening again, can you?

It absolutely wouldn't. Children hit because they are caught up in big emotions and it happens before they have time to think.

OP, I think the books and chat was absolutely right - he needs teaching about emotions and how to handle them, it's far more effective that carrot/stick. Then he will hopefully recognise those feelings before they build up to the point he loses control and lashes out, and can employ techniques to help him manage it (move away, find an adult, phrases to use when someone is pissing him off!).
He's 5 years old. School dealt with the incident, your job was to help him make sense of it. You did that, or at least laid the foundations of it.

OP your son is 5 years old!! You need to tell him firmly that he can’t have the nice thing (ice cream) because he has been hitting (name of child) in school and we do not do that even if they annoy us! Go through with him what he should do instead of attacking if another child annoys him, practise it with him.
He won’t understand consequences innately, that is for you to teach him as his actual parent!
You should have started this earlier but hopefully it’s not too late for your son!

Him writing an apology letters isn't meant to be a punishment, so it doesn't matter if he enjoys it or not and it doesn't matter if you have to help him.

It is about teaching him that when he hurts another person, he needs to apologise to rectify the situation - that he can't hurt people and not apologise. Its also about repairing your child's relationship with the other child by making it clear he understands he's in the wrong and is sorry.

While you are making the apology card you can make sure to talk to him and explain exactly what you are doing and why.Then you make sure he personally gives the letter to the other child.

I tend not to discipline things that happen at school as usually school give a consequence but I do reinforce what school have said.
However as this is a big issue I agree I wouldn’t go out for a treat either.
At five for a one off incident I’d say that’s fine.
Going forward I would read some books with hi to talk about hurting others and the impact. And do some behaviour work on managing anger, deep breaths, taking a drink of water, cuddling a toy. I’d also speak to school and ask if they have any concerns/advice on how to support him.
He may be a little behind in not being able to link consequences to his actions (ideally a consequence is as close to the incident as possible)
he is still learning to regulate his emotions, he also may have been significantly provoked.

This reads as if your child has hit others multiple times? I think having pre printed cards gives the wrong message as if this is something you expect to happen again rather than something unacceptable.

What did his father say about the incident when he came home? Does he agree with how you handled things?

For me, not going for ice cream is fair enough but I would phrase it as ' X is upset because you hurt him, so instead of going for ice cream we are going to spend that time thinking of ways to make it right' - lead on to a discussion about decent apologies, make a sorry card or similar (doesn't matter that he enjoys drawing, it's the discussion around why your making the card 'what would X like on it's etc.

I would then work on managing feelings separately to this as for me there's two parts 1 - making it right 2 - not repeating it.

I also think you handled it appropriately and it is right to move on and not drag it out.

I do think it is a little unusual he'd not understand he'd done something wrong at age 5. I think both my kids would feel upset and ashamed.

I think even if they don't quite understand their role in it was wrong, they see there has been an upset they were responsible for and that they've been told off by a teacher - which usually feels very serious to a 5 year old.

Fixation on the removal of the ice cream is not that unusual. All young children end up thinking about the thing they've lost. I do think my kids also worry about having done "something wrong" from being told off and having upset someone too. I'm not sure if that's usual, I only know it in my own kids.

The main objective i guess is you don't want it to happen again, in a 5year old that's not always achieved by making them feel bad about it because they're impulsive and driven by their emotions. I think focusing on what to do instead next time someone upsets him would be the most helpful.