12 (almost 13 yr old) just seems to switch off brain permanently.

[foel]

Started off with what we assumed was just teen laziness. Couldn't be bothered at all.

Forgetting things for school, generally being useless.

Then we realised the school had a problem with her so this was somewhat different. I guess at 12/13 years old they treat the kids like they're not toddlers any more.

Doesn't work for our daughter. Missed things, never knows what lessons shes got, forgets homework etc. If she can she will leave things to other people rather than have to make the effort to think for herself - I'm sure shes lost friends who (and I can't blame them) have got sick of her being the only one who never know if x class is on or etc...

Its as if anything needing one iota of brain power - nope brain turned off. She walks around with her head up her backside all day long.

The thing she does at home. Nearly knackered the kettle twice "I didn't know there was no water in it!" "No one told me to turn the cooker off".....
Cooking instructions "I dont know how to cook this do I?" "what does the packet say?" "microwave on high 5 mins" "there we go then"
Then "what does that mean?"

Are you kidding me?

Its almost as if shes regressed to the mental ability of a 6/7 year old to be honest....

BUT tiktok and/or skincare products I'm sure shes a world leading expert. I don wonder if less tab/phone time is the answer?

Another vote for ADHD or Autistic! The microwaving comment reminds me of some homework years ago my son had- it was to put the planets from one sheet, in order on a separate piece of paper. Had a meltdown over it because "how am I supposed to change what order they're in when it doesn't even tell me to cut them out?!" It was pretty implicit to cut them all out and then re-order them, but because it didn't specifically say that, he couldn't make the connection that's what he needed to do, even though he knew that was the only way to do it.

There will be so much that's mentally draining for her, and every day stuff we take for granted can be huge mental battles.

Be kind to yourself and her, it's rough going at times ❤️

Thank you @AllBar for your reply. I was going to write something similar myself and you have saved me 🙂

@foel I am not qualified to diagnose neurodivergence, but I am a parent of 2 ND adults and married to another. My first thought when reading your post was that there seems to be an executive function issue going on here. I think @AllBar has given you excellent advice, which I can only second.

My experience is that the children need an awful lot of parental patience at this stage, and help to solve the problems your daughter is experiencing. I note that many people have advised the removal of phones - but they do have a use here. I taught my children to set reminders on the phone - gym kit for school, stop activity X and start y, music lesson at 5pm. I'm sure you get the picture. I also encouraged them to make notes so that they were not fiddling with phones when they shouldn't be. Visual aids - timetables, calendars and so on are very helpful and even pictures rather than words, that can be taken in at a glance. Finally, a daily routine of setting out everything needed for the next day is a good habit to form, again, with your help. School stuff in bag, lay out clothes and shoes, a reminder to put in lunch or lunch money is very helpful.

Eventually, they both went to university, lived in self catered accommodation and managed to get good degrees. I'm convinced that establishing daily routines helped them become the independent adults that they are now. Incidentally, although #1received her (not ADHD) diagnosis aged 4.5 just before starting school, #2 did not receive his formal diagnosis (and much appreciated medication) until his last year in university. He was always ADHD - but was so much like his father (diagnosed and medicated in his 50s, after #2) and grandfather (never diagnosed, but clearly the same) that we never realised that he had an actual named condition.

Things like this have a way of getting back to the kids. When I was at school a friends mum told my mum that her daughter was babyish and developmentally behind the other kids-my mum told me and of course I told my friend "your mum thinks you're babyish" it's just disrespectful. Like if your partner was bitching about you to their friends it wouldn't be very nice either. More power to ya if you wouldn't mind though.

All the crappy and annoying things in life, we should just ‘suck it up’?

Depends if you chose to do those things or not. The kids never asked to be here did they.

I’m sure I read something about watching short videos and it have a negative effect on memory. I’ve definitely noticed a decline in my memory since I downloaded TikTok.

I would start reducing phone usage first of all.

Hi,
I could have written this about my daughter and it transpired, after years of me chasing, knowing something wasn't 'right' as she would work hard in school but things would just 'fall out of her head' in tests and every day, that she has significant memory issues hand in hand with visual processing and processing speed issues.
We got her formally screened and diagnosed, now she has had access arrangements tests and has qualified for extra time in assessments etc. It's still difficult for her but knowing how to help tackle it was a big relief. It's not linked to intelligence etc. It's why it took so long to be realised, I think, as my daughter has a high reading age etc and it masked it. There is a high crossover with ADHD...we have our suspicions but not pursuing diagnosis at this time.

“Just remember if a comment you put of an internet forum is not something you'd say to someone's face then you probably should think again.”
read back how you just described your child and maybe take your own advice?

have you given any thought to WHY she is presenting this way? What have you done as per responsible adult to support her with strategies to put in place. Your annoyance and disdain is palpable, I’m sure she’s aware of that. Imagine feeling your mum doesn’t like you and is disappointed in you.

ADHD can actually effect the age of executive function. I'll share an infographic from the top ADHD Specialist. It's also worth me pointing out ND people are skill spiky, this means we have random skills we are very efficient at but often poor executive function, our brains slow down and our processing speeds can vary.

Sounds just like my ADHD (inattentive type) husband.

Another one saying that it might be ADHD. If that’s the case she’s probably functioning at around the level of a 9 to 10 year old do you might need to expect a little less of her. Maybe highlighting and laminating her time table for her avd keep a copy in her bag and one on the wall above her desk? I would also help her pack her bag the night before so that she had the right books and snacks plus water.

Try and limit time on her phone as well. Does she do any exercise? This can be very good for ADHD brains. Alao look into ways of getting dopamine naturally.

And have you started the ADHD assessment process if it’s something that you’ve been considering? I would also suggest requesting an EHP assessment.

Tey and remember too that as hard and frustrating this is for you, it’s so much harder for her

I posted on the thread when it started and just a few thoughts that have come from reading some of the replies.

Sometimes it enough of a starting point to make use of the similarities between a person and a condition/diagnosis/neurodiversity and pick up some pointers from those resources to help you come up with ideas. I'm bipolar and have made use of resources made for people in loads of different situations. The reason behind the struggle might be different but the day to day impact might be similar. I draw on quite a few ADHD resources as well as fatigue related conditions.

My daughter finds it difficult to articulate her needs to unfamiliar people and it's taken time for her to see adults in school as safe people. The school have brought in some resources that they use with some of the kids on the neurodivergent pathway. She's a quiet August born who is a watch and observe personality. We don't have any concerns about her being ND currently but the props to help her with communication whilst she was finding her feet in school have been beneficial.

The other thought I had was to include her in coming up with new schemes and plans. Try to work out what it is that makes her brain tick as you might find yourself doing things that would help you in that situation but not your daughter. My partner and I are quite different in the way we remember and notice things and find ourselves trying to be helpful whilst actually being unhelpful. For example my partner likes things to be put in the same place every time whereas I sometimes need things to be in a weird place as that's distinctive and different. So he might find my keys by the toast rather than in the hall cupboard where he keeps his keys. In the morning I can't then find my keys because I was expecting them to be where I left them and he thought he was being helpful as he would have never found them the next day if he had left them by the toaster the day before.

Finally there are something where of it's not natural to you it's a lot harder. My mum and little sister don't really like food. Eating is a chore and they have little patience for recipes they are both dyslexic and find comprehension doesn't always come naturally to them. My sister has phoned me before asking how do you cook boil in the bag rice! If it's something that makes sense to them they can decode the instructions in a way they can understand but yeah with cooking they jump quite quickly I don't understand, you do, can you walk me through what to do. Ask her to make you a cake and she will just about manage a kit where you add an egg and shove it in the oven but you could give her the pattern and instructions for a ball gown and she would have no issues.

FWIW I don’t think you sound like you dislike your daughter at all, you just sound frustrated with the situation and have come on here to vent and look for some advice/guidance and I think some of the comments are just unkind and not very helpful. I have 4 teenagers, they are all different, some need more support than others in different ways but I would say that some of her doesn’t seem ‘normal’.

My twopenneth here. The impact of puberty on all things brain cannot be underestimated. I have three daughters, initially all three excelling academically but the eldest and youngest both struggled post 13/14 years. It was a gradual process and not really noticeable until late into GCSE's. At a loss to understand what was going on, I had them both tested (privately) for dyslexia as it is prolific in our family and to their and my surprise, they were dyslexic. Surprised as they didn't fit what I thought was a typical dyslexic profile and it had gone on in plain sight because they masked so well (until they couldn't). The youngest in particular has gone from a tidy, well organised person, into someone who is very tired all the time, lethargic, scatty and demotivated. Her working memory is currently non-existent. There's been a shedding of friendships along the way for both and a huge hit on mental health.

I would say puberty hits our particular family genetics hard - it gives them a proper brain scramble which takes until at least 19/20 years to recover and repair the damage. They have had to learn things about themselves and different ways of working and processing. The youngest is also being tested for POTS which may or may not be COVID related.

I totally empathise with your frustration. But urge you to understand that for some children, the brain changes are profound and beyond their control and it is not just behavioural. It would not hurt to have your child thoroughly assessed by professionals to see if there is something undiagnosed.

Have you thought if she’s got dyslexia or dyspraxia? I’ve both and really struggled with organisation at school.

Can I be slightly nitpicky? This graphic wasn't produced by Russell Barkley and the wording in it is different from the wording he uses. I see variations of this all over social media and I find it a bit frustrating because it is worded in a way which is borderline misinformation IMO.

It's true that he has a concept he calls "The 30% rule" and this refers to the fact that children with ADHD often have a delay in the development of their executive functioning, which he finds is roughly equivalent to around 30% of their actual age, in terms of parents and teachers having an idea of how much support a child is likely to need with any given task or responsibility.

"Executive functioning age" is not a real thing/not backed up by research because it's not strictly true that their development is always exactly this much behind, it's more of a rough metric to help parents/teachers/other adults involved in supporting a child have an idea of what kind of support may be helpful. So for example if you have a 12yo with ADHD, the 30% rule would give you ~8yo as a guide. OP mentioned her daughter having trouble with timetabling, homework and so on - and if you think of an 8yo, in year 4, children that age don't usually have responsibility for those things on their own, do they? At primary school the children usually stay in one classroom and the teachers move around, or the whole class moves together with the escort of a teacher, whereas 12yos are at secondary where they are expected to find their own way around. But this is just a starting point - and clearly she manages by way of things like following a friend she knows is in the same class.

You have to be careful about infantilising or patronising so don't think of it as a literal "my child is XYZ age" - it's really only meant to be a starting point for thinking about where support may be helpful. You should always go by how things are going IRL and respond to that.

Also this particular example doesn't do it but some of them continue right up to adult ages and this is unhelpful because actually the analogy only works up to about ~25-30 where it sort of settles and adults with ADHD retain the executive functioning skills of an average young adult aged 18-21. This is obviously perfectly adequate to function as an adult in society but it's not ideal which is why adults with ADHD tend to struggle if it's not diagnosed and treated.

He has a presentation which explains the theory behind it in more detail:

Try again for the video

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A lot of kids hit a phase where their executive functioning just collapses forgetting homework, zoning out, not following simple steps, missing instructions. It looks like laziness, but it’s often their brain being overwhelmed by the jump in expectations at this age.

The hyper-focus on TikTok or skincare is common too. Fast, easy dopamine is much more appealing when everything else feels like “too much effort.”

What usually helps:
• Slightly less phone time, especially after school
• Very clear routines (bag packed the night before, checklist on the wall, alarms)
• Breaking tasks into tiny steps so she doesn’t shut down
• A lot of repetition without frustration because their brains genuinely need it right now

On a related note, we’ve been working on Coggi, which has quick feeling check-ins and short assessments to help identify whether the issue is attention, overwhelm, or emotional regulation plus small daily activities that build focus which can be helpful during this exact stage.

You’re not alone. Year 8 is a rough patch for many kids. It does get better with support.