12 (almost 13 yr old) just seems to switch off brain permanently.

[foel]

Started off with what we assumed was just teen laziness. Couldn't be bothered at all.

Forgetting things for school, generally being useless.

Then we realised the school had a problem with her so this was somewhat different. I guess at 12/13 years old they treat the kids like they're not toddlers any more.

Doesn't work for our daughter. Missed things, never knows what lessons shes got, forgets homework etc. If she can she will leave things to other people rather than have to make the effort to think for herself - I'm sure shes lost friends who (and I can't blame them) have got sick of her being the only one who never know if x class is on or etc...

Its as if anything needing one iota of brain power - nope brain turned off. She walks around with her head up her backside all day long.

The thing she does at home. Nearly knackered the kettle twice "I didn't know there was no water in it!" "No one told me to turn the cooker off".....
Cooking instructions "I dont know how to cook this do I?" "what does the packet say?" "microwave on high 5 mins" "there we go then"
Then "what does that mean?"

Are you kidding me?

Its almost as if shes regressed to the mental ability of a 6/7 year old to be honest....

BUT tiktok and/or skincare products I'm sure shes a world leading expert. I don wonder if less tab/phone time is the answer?

What’s she like when you have a conversation? When it’s not something that requires instructions? Do you feel she’s present or zoned out, etc. how is she socially?

These private agencies would lablel with anything tbh. My friend went to see one and she was told she was dyslexic. Her reading and writing skills are outstanding, she has a good understanding of maths, very organised and has good coordination, brilliant manurl dexterity.
I was diagnosed with having ADHD late in life. I honestly didn't think it was a lifelong condition. It took nearly two years to actually get an assessment with NHS practitioner.

I was the most disorganised child, still am but subconsciously I've learned coping mechanisms .

Sounds very much like my eldest daughter who is 15. We are about to start a private diagnosis for autism and inattentive adhd. If that is what it is she is probably completely exhausted and near burn out from masking it for so long and that will take a serious change in direction from you in how to help her.
It is exhausting and infuriating but with my DD the more I read about all the stuff that goes alongside autism the more I am certain she has it.
Do a bit of research and see if you think it could be that and then try and get her diagnosed before it becomes even harder for her at school. My DD is a fantastic actor so her masking was bafta winning amazing, but it’s caught up with her now.
good luck and I hope you get her some help.

with the private agencies you pay for the diagnosis not the test... that is why everyone has something!

If you suspect ADHD, then take a huge step backwards and do the following:

• Help her to understand herself, the way her brain works, her strengths and her weaknesses.
• Put systems in place in your home that work for her and set her up to succeed at school the next day. A "launch pad" area with everything she needs for school the next day, her timetable up on the fridge or on the wall and a laminated copy in her bag, homework done at the kitchen table with you "body-doubling" with her to keep her on track and then packed away in her bag for the next day.
• You could try giving her coffee to drink or another source of caffeine. If she does have ADHD, it often has a calming and focusing effect.

As a child with undiagnosed ADHD, I had the following things said about me - "space cadet", "head in the clouds", "away with the fairies". My ADHD also made me anxious, hyper sensitive to criticism and meant that I was immature for my age. Does this sound familiar at all in relation to your DD?

A few years ago I was living in Chamonix and my brother asked if his eldest (15yo) son could come and spend a chunk of the summer with me. He was very similar to the OPs DD when he turned up and equally infuriating. Just seemed oblivious to the world around him, bumbling along being spoon fed every instruction and endless scrolling on the phone despite literally on his doorstep having access to the outdoor capital of Europe. Got him a job in a bar as a glass collector/kitchen hand which after some initial epic stroppy tantrums finally seemed to light a fire under him insofar as actually having to be a bit more responsible for himself. The job kept him off his screen for extended periods as he was too damm busy at work. I think the additional social engagement with actual people and being a member of a team did wonders. He came back the following summer to work again as he was enjoying himself by the end so much.

Reward effort (not achievement). It saves a lot of grief in the long run.

Dyslexic or ADHD?

I had a friend at school like this. He ended up really hating school and barely graduated. His parents and teachers were so fed up. He was as it turns out dyslexic, but diagnosed much later in life.

Honestly, I would throw every penny I had at this if it were my child to get her some help and diagnosis. My friend's school experience was traumatic and his self esteem took such a battering. I feel so sad for him.

Not true in our case.

I was exactly the same at that age- my mum would tear her hair out. I don’t have ADHD by the way, I was just a very scatty, forgetful child but I sorted myself out by the time I did my GCSEs and knuckled down.

definitely reduce the screen time. Put restrictions on her phone in case she is doomscrolling short reels- worse things ever for attention span issues.

This sounds exactly like my son who has ASD. I bought a checklist board of Amazon to help him, he can check them off as he does each one each day. It lists things like get dressed, do teeth, make bed which helps him organise himself to a certain extent. Visuals and charts really help some children that struggle with their organisational and functioning skills. I need to go through his timetable with him each morning as a reminder for school too.

Not saying this is the case for your daughter (ASD) but some help with organisation if she’s struggling with that will help until she can do it herself.

33 year old AuDHD woman here. Sounds relatable, tbh. Regardless, she’s clearly facing something. If you want her to open up to you, you HAVE to be on her side. It’s you and her vs any issues she faces. Not you vs her. Talk to her, show empathy, ask if there’s anyway you can help her be more organised and engaged, if a planner or visual reminders would help, or sitting with her whilst she does things. I’m an adult and need someone to body double me with the simplest of tasks. It’s not that I don’t want to do them, it’s that I CAN’T. ADHD isn’t laziness at all, and if she is neurodivergent then you’ll really need to reframe how you think about these things and how you approach them with her. If she’s on the pathway for diagnosis, then school should put together an IEP and she’s entitled to all the same support as if she was diagnosed.

Of course it is ADHD.
It always is on Mumsnet.

How much time is she on technology? Is she on social media a lot? Or her phone? I work in a secondary school and would say limit her social media and phone exposure hugely as it can have a significant affect on focus, learning and development.

Yep.

The poor lass sounds depressed to me. The regression and asking questions sounds like she is wanting some care and attention. I would be extra solicitous and loving and not take her 'failures' personally.

Complicated world??

This is pretty normal at this age.
They all get ‘lazy’ but they do genuinely need more sleep, more food and more downtime.

Make sure she’s taking her vitamins too and eating a healthy diet.

I strongly doubt it’s adhd as that doesn’t just come on. Someone would have noticed something before now.

She needs to be taught independence but she is also a child and needs help.

Have you printed her timetable out - my DD had a paper copy she kept in her pocket, copied it into her planner which was in her bag and took a photo on her phone.

She needs to be writing in her planner when she has homework and then you need to go through it to remind her.

Phones do take up a lot of headspace but they’re also good for downtime which kids, especially teens need.

I would always let my DD go on her screens as much as she wanted before dinner.
Then she’d eat dinner, do her homework and sort her stuff out for the morning etc and once that was done she can go back on her screens.
I have a similar routine and it just works for us.

Christ, give the girl a break. She's 12. If being a bit absent-minded is the worst of her problems, I don't think you've got anything to be concerned about. Describing her as 'generally useless' is horrible. You honestly sound like you can't stand her.

FWIW, every single one of my secondary school reports mentions at least once that I was disorganised and terrible at remembering homework, timetables etc, right up until my final report in Y13.

Even now in my late 40s I still lose things constantly, wander off halfway through making a cup of tea and forget about it, am rubbish at remembering appointments etc.

I don't have ADHD, before anyone asks, and neither was my brain destroyed by 'screens' - I grew up in the 80s and 90s so had no access to the internet, let alone a smart phone.

I do have dyspraxia, but I also think plenty of neurotypical 12-year-olds are a bit scatterbrained because - in shock news - people aren't perfect. Some people are useless with organisational skills, some people struggle with creativity, some people aren't good with numbers, some people aren't good with words, some people aren't very good at dealing with emotional stuff and/or can't read a room, some people aren't good team-players, some people aren't good on their own. Everyone has different strengths and weaknesses.

I'm sure shes lost friends who (and I can't blame them) have got sick of her being the only one who never know if x class is on

Kids are notoriously fickle with friendships but n my experience, that isn't something 12-year-olds ditch their friends for, and it would be shitty of them if they did.

Lots of people have said ADHD and I think so too. Its not so obvious in girls as the hyperactivity part is often not there. Forgetfulness and inability to sequence tasks are indicators. ADHD is exacerbated by doomscrolling and quick fire videos on YouTube/tiktok so may be worse after being on device's. Sounds like it could be worthwhile checking in with GP to get support. It may also be what your school is trying to tell you by alerting to problems, they are not allowed to suggest or diagnose

Have a read about inattentive type ADHD. I have 2 here and this is what it's like! It does become more noticeable in girls in puberty too.

I would start by suspecting dyslexia/ dyspraxia but it could be ADD/ADHD. She really needs to be assessed as a matter of urgency. If school is also seeing the issues, that should help you to get an assessment and diagnosis.

She sounds a lot like my 14 year old DD who was diagnosed with inattentive ADHD when she was 12. If you think that’s a possibility, you could look into how to support girls with adhd with executive functioning. Even if she doesn’t have ADHD, it won’t do any harm to try. It can be so frustrating to parent her, but I am sure it’s very frustrating for her too. It’s sad that you think your DD has lost friends because of it.

I would say 12-13-year-olds definitely have to navigate a more complicated world than I did as a teenager. I grew up without the internet, when there was less pressure to do loads of extra-curricular activities (most of my friends did no more than one 'activity' outside school, if that), when we only had four TV channels, we weren't being exposed to hardcore porn when we were too young to understand it, consumer culture was very different (no influencers on TikTok telling 12-year-olds to buy expensive skincare, for example) and school was a lot less pressurised. No SATs, far fewer selective schools, much less stress around catchment areas etc. Most school trips were affordable for the majority of parents.

Of course we still had plenty to stress and worry about, including some things that are less of an issue now, but overall I definitely think life is more complicated for a child of 12-13 than it was in the 90s.

We have more than a few students like this. Kids who come and ask me to explain the instructions because they weren't listening when I explained the first two times and don't want to read the instructions I have posted. Kids who want me to solve problems for them that they could easily solve for themselves with a little thought. Kids whose first instinct isn't to try to figure it out, but to look around for an adult to tell them what to do. Or an influencer to tell them what to think.