Drastic action to tackle 5&7 YO behaviour

[CraftyC]

I have two girls age 5 and 7. Just short of 2 years between them. Their behaviour needs a drastic overhaul.

We have employed gentle parenting ideas for years. My patience level is very high. We discuss things calmly, we highlight bad behaviour, I do employ consequences such as time out for negative behaviour or a positive based "tokens in the jar" for good behaviour. Generally, the 7 YO has had good behaviour before the last 6 months. The 5 YO has been VERY challenging from a young age but we coped.

Their behaviour lately is DISGUSTING. Never ending arguing. Like hours and hours of constant fighting, shouting at us every time we ask them to do something (mainly 7 YO), destroying rooms with clothes or activities and then refusing to tidy anything up without a battle, immense tantrums, ingratitude, general incredibly spoiled brat behaviour. Think Veruca Salt on steroids. My house is hellish to live in. Full of them shouting, fighting, demanding, screaming. I rarely raise my voice because I learned years ago that has no effect. I am living in utter misery. We dont literally spoil them with things as money isnt readily available so its not that. They have no screen time during the week so i cant blame it on that. I am essentially being bullied by my children. They just think I am their slave. Their treatment of me and my husband is vile. Nothing I do is working. I am in shock that I have raised kids to be like this.

They need a HUGE reset. As a teacher I have seen what happens when parents dont tackle this, but my small day to day "that is not acceptable behaviour" phrasing is not working. We need something big. I was thinking of removing their toys and things they trash about the place (not books), and their behaviour determines if they get their things back. I was thinking of a big chart to track day to day. We need a way of moving from "ah they are little" to "no. You are responsible for your behaviour. Here is the consequence. I am not accepting this".

I am done being a push over with my kids. I refuse to raise brats. I am fighting for their behaviour. I need ideas as to how to hammer this out because I cannot live like this anymore.

If anyone says "be positive with them" I will ignore you. Being positive has got my into this situation.

Thats been my whole month. Non stop. They arent changing their behaviour. They come down and 5 mins later it starts all over again

If they follow you round shouting, put them on time out for being rude. Suggest you have a specific spot for each of them that is away from the main areas of the house, but you can keep a general eye, so bottom of the stairs for one and corner of the hall for the other. They stay there until they stop shouting plus 1 min per year (so the timer doesnt start until they are in place and quiet). If they move away from the spot, just put them back with no a single word said.

Any conversation / reaction from you is payoff for them at this age so the key is to be a blank slate and to not talk to them at all beyond the that is rude, you are on time out.

Before you start your new plan, sit down with them both and DH and draw up a set of house rules and behaviour rules for everyone and lay out the consequences for breaking the rules. They can make suggestions but you and DH are in charge of deciding. Then write all the rules and consequences down and stick it on the fridge. Its also good to have an escalation clause, so first offense, second offense etc. Be very serious, make it like a business meeting, if you judge it right, your demenor will have a big impact

Yep. They do that. And you just go about your day, making beds, reading a book, washing up. They'll yell themselves out eventually and get bored and calm down. And then, when they're calm, you deal with them. But it may take a while.

Cross post, if they come down and immediately start again, that is a second offense..so go to the next level of consequence. I also would make mine apologize and tell me what they had done that triggered the consequence after they finished the time out.

Also shouting at them gives them a payoff, its energy and attention, be scarily calm and use a low voice/tone

Is there a way of putting up some kind of partition, in their bedroom? So that they have their own designated "private", non-trespass-able spaces.
I think they really need their own privacy, especially, as they don't seem to get on, at the moment.
Its not perfect, I realise, but you might make them feel 'heard'.

But I also echo PPs consistent, robust consequences, harsh, if needs be...children need these strong boundaries to feel safe.
No more over-explaining, reasoning, or saying "This isnt acceptable" and telling them they have one warning, and one warning only, and stick to it.

Also, you appear to recognise the older DDs poor behaviour, especially, but is she quietly being provoked to breaking point by your younger DD? It must be hard to unpick the individual triggers, when they are together, in their room, and you are elsewhere, getting dinner ready?

Oh, OP, its so hard, and it sounds like you're at the end of your tether. I really feel for you. Maybe it's time for tough love, like a PP found worked? You may find taking control, actually empowering and useful.

I'm sure you'll get through it, but you sound utterly miserable. Sending you energy.💐

Earlier this year, my kids were 7&6 (15 months Apart) and I felt like I was heading towards a breakdown. Single parent, ASD son just very hard.

One day I hid all the electronics (sold their tablets - behaviour has improved massively & they have TVs / son has consoles but no more Samsung tablets). They got home from school, rooms empty minus the bed and wardrobes and desks with books/pens/paper.

I told them they don't take me serious and I'm done making empty threats about what I'll do if they don't listen(getting rid of toys, electronics etc).

They cried & had many meltdowns but guess what? They're much better now. They got their items back gradually (over the space of a week, proving they could behave etc). Have had much less issues since. We have a great relationship but my daughter can act very entitled and I have to remind her she isn't the boss. She used to take 3 hours to sleep, now it's 20 mins and I don't need to sit with her. Good luck, I reached this point and I'm so glad to be leaving it in 2025. I hope you figure a way to resolve this

You make sure that they don't come down five minutes later. If you have to carry them back up you do that.

It's not a drastic and dramatic act that will be a solution though it's boring, calm and repetitive that will get the reults because they will realise that no matter what the outcome will be the outcome you demanded first time.
I gave choices "you can choose to stop shouting this minute or you can go to your room to shout" One raised voice you take them to their room with instruction that there will be 5 minutes quiet before they come out (Alexa is perfect for this dd uses it for Grandson) You don't start the five minutes until it has gone quiet. You restart it if they leave before five minutes quiet. If they come down and start shouting again you take them back and tell them they didn't learn first time so now there will be ten minutes quiet before they come down.
It's boring and tedious but it needs to be. When they finally do the quiet time you point out what a shame it is to have wasted all that time when you could have been having fun because it's taken so long there isn't time to play as it's time for bedtime.
It will click and in time they choose the right choices first time. Alongside that I also had boring chores as punishment the most hated was having to pair the socks in the sock basket, but they would also get a wet wipe and a patch of tiles to polish, the cutlery drawer to sort and refil it needs to be tedious and away from where the rest of you congregate. I had two pairs with less than two years between them putting up with any nonsense would have sent me grey.

The WHY is what to resolve, so it's obtuse to say you are done with figuring it out.

But it's obvious - no where for then to escape from each other. Barely one on one time with you.
Playing on their own/together with no parental input, then dinner time together - big deal. Then story and bed. Honestly it sounds incredibly boring!

OP, I'm going to suggest a completely different approach to the one many posters are suggesting here.

Work with your kids, not against. What you need is to restore peace and harmony to your home so that you can breathe. Then you can work on individual aspects of their behaviour.

Punishment just winds everyone up and puts everyone in a bad mood. Yes, sometimes you can't avoid it (hitting, swearing etc.) but it's best to use humour and (whisper it...) bribery to avoid getting to that stage if you can, especially if you have explosive, difficult-to-parent kids.

Personally, if I were in your situation I'd massively increase screen time during the week (1-2 hours a day) to give myself a break, because, heretic that I may be, I don't think some daily screen time is worse that having a parent who is stressed and quite frankly doesn't like you very much. When my kids are irritating me beyond belief, I put the TV on, serve up the snacks, retreat to the kitchen and... breathe.

Second, I'd ignore most of the squabbling and just lock myself in the bathroom and refuse to come out until they shut up. Playing meditational music loudly adds effect.

When my children are being particularly brattish, I actually sing the Verruca Salt song at them. "I want the world, I want the whole world..." It makes me laugh every single time.

If they leave mess around, I find that I can't do what they want me to do until it's tidied up. Cue "I'm so sorry, sweetie, I'd love to make you pancakes. But the mess in this room is just hurting my BRAIN so much that I've forgotten the recipe. If only the room was tidy, I could remember it."

If they shout at me, I find I've gone deaf.

Be a little more lax and a little more selfish.

Small suggestion amongst many: use ear defenders / headphones to attenuate the screaming for you.

You say “I” a lot.
What part does their father play?

no where for them to escape from each other.

Unless the op has no living room, that can't be the case. I shared a room with my sister, but we also had a front room and back room downstairs. Sometimes one of us talked to mum in the kitchen while she was doing dinner while the other one did something else in another room.

I have to cook a healthy dinner after I have been at work. You would complain if I gave them pizza.

I sit with them for the entire time between dinner and bed. So you can leave your criticism at the door and say something useful. Or dont. Yeesh. Be helpful lady!

I feel like I do this A LOT but maybe I need to be more consistent. But they are at times, being sent to their room 6 or 7 times in a day. I feel its not having any affect. If its both of them I have to somehow separate one into my room where they just rummage through my stuff because they share the room. The 7 YO likes being in her room. She can read. Its not much of a deterrent. I have run ojt of options really which is why I am feeling stupidly desperate to ask for help on here (which i am very much regretting due to all the "well arent you boring and rubbish as a parent" people who are wasting space on earth). I feel a million times worse now.

But you are genuinely helpful. Thank you

OP, throughout most of the last fifty years, the vast majority of children raised in Britain will not have had their own bedrooms. The idea that it is impossible to behave without having your own room is utter bullshit and an incredibly overprivileged view of life.

So as you are asking, I would say:

1 set up behaviour expectations IN ADVANCE and repeat. I am a dragon like this. Group huddle at school gate: "when we get home, we are doing XYZ and you are not shouting. What are you NOT doing?" Etc and repeat at the front door.

2 separate them if poss. "Olivia is doing her spellings with me in the kitchen while I cook, Emily can play in the living rm with <favourite toy> AS LONG AS you are playing nicely". Invent stuff for them to do if necessary, "I need you to draw a picture for Granny" etc.

3 small immediate treats for good behaviour. "Whoever is being good gets to...." cross off a day on the calendar, get modest screen time etc

4 bad behaviour, not shouting but very firm and immediate consequence, something goes away etc. And treat it like toddler bedtime, they go out of their room or whatever, you grey rock and return them: "no. You are in here because you shouted. You stay here for 10 mins"

5 outdoor play if humanly poss. We do 10 mins on playground by school on way home. Or, if they are acting up, I make mine play in the garden unless it is an actual monsoon: "if you cannot have indoor voices/ stop shouting, you'll be outside for 15 mins"

6 give them tasks and reward them for those with a sticker chart. So not for "good behaviour" but for actually doing something, pref something for the household like "wipe the hall floor with this Method spray" or "can you carry this laundry upstairs". I sort of feel like it gives them a positive way to make a contribution.

It'll take a bit for that to bed in. Mine listen to me cos they know I mean it. They run rings around DH because he tries to rationalise and bargain with them.

^re the above, sorry, I know YOU didn't say that about bedrooms, others did!

Also can you batch cook at weekends to spend less time cooking in the week? We do this a lot

Where is your partner in all this? Are you both consistent in your discipline?

What one on one time are they each getting with you and your DH? What clubs or groups do they go to after school/weekends?

Can you divide and conquer and spend some time each individually with them? Each take one girl out on a Saturday separately, then spend family time pn a sunday.

Do they ever do anything separately after school - play date, club? Dinner doesn't need to be cooked from scratch every night, chuck on a pizza, or get a slow cooker, and spend some time with each or both of them.

We both work but he works 9-10 hours days. After school i pick up at 4:30, and by the time they are home, changed, i cook, we have time for dinner and then its 6pm. We spend 1 hours with them and then bed routine starts. We have 5 hours of time together monday to Friday. Such is the world where 2 incomes are needed for a mortgage before you start going down my throat. We are doing the best we can. I an a teacher so I have all half terms, summer, christmas etc, so I set the behaviour standards and he really does try to be consistent but its hard when he isnt home and I am. He is a good, hard working man. We are both doing our best in a hard working world

Sorry my comments were more about what one on one time your DC are getting with you and your DH. Some quality, individual time with ine parent might help? Whether that is at weekends, or separate bedtimes etc.

We do try to split them but sometimes they are required to be in the same room. If they are in the same room for any more than 2 or 3 minutes they erupt.

I need help with their behaviour, with strategies to minimise the hellish behaviour. Please, I dont need suggestions I am already doing. I cant list all th things I am doing. I just asked for help with how to knock the bad behaviour on the head, not scrutinise myself again and again and blame it on me. They need consequences, not excuses. I need help with those consequences.

when did this start the breakdown in the relationship OP if they can’t even be in the same room

what years are they?

look consequences here isn’t gong to change anything either because it sounds complicated and yes you and your partner are trying your best but those long days and lack of space are also going to be huge factors for your children.

I know it's going against the grain of punish, discipline, be harsh but I'd go back to basics and work on building attachment through the PACE method. It's used for children who have been impacted by trauma but I find the concepts incredibly useful when I'm struggling with dd. https://ddpnetwork.org/about-ddp/meant-pace/. Being a parent is a relationship not a job and when children act out using it as a chance to deepen our understanding of them pays dividends in my experience

I can hear the frustration in your posts @CraftyC
Take a look at magic 1,2,3 - it’s a brilliant behaviour strategy but you have to be consistent.

Sounds like you all need a good long walk every afternoon or evening. Serve sandwiches for dinner if you need to in order to make time.