Am I missing something - childcare.

[Halie]

I'm currently on mat leave and thinking about what will happen once mat leave ends.

Initially, I planned to return to my job, but currently I'm struggling with how that would work financially. As well as that, I feel very negatively about putting baby into childcare / nursery aged 1. I know it works for some and that's great but for me it's going completely against my instincts especially with the things I read on the news about nurseries.

If I put my child in nursery it's approx £200 per week locally, so £800 per month. We're a 2 income home, but to simplify it, that leaves me with about £1000 left of my wage. However, if I quit my job I can look after my child myself and according to online calculators I would get approx £900 in universal credit and £100 child benefit.

Am I missing something? Why would I go back to work to pay for a stranger to take care of my child when I can leave, do it myself and have a similar income?

What are other people without a village doing and what led to your decisions?

Okay thanks, so the online calculators are wildly inaccurate in that case. I think we'll end up with me going PT (if my work allow - that's the problem), him continuing FT and then claiming UC so we're looking to just top things up a bit. If my work won't accept PT, that's where the problems arise.

As far as I'm aware my husband wouldn't be in the intensive work search category as he meets the earnings threshold. He works approx 40hrs a week on at least NMW over two separate jobs. I've worked self employed along side my current job for a few years and it's untaxed due to the amount I earn from it (less than £1000 per year). So unless I suddenly increased the self employed hours (unlikely) I'm not sure how that would affect UC - I'd have to clarify that.

Thank you. Yes, that sounds more like it. So around 2100 household income (adding the child benefit). We can easily survive on that as we survived on less when DH was made redundant last year and I was the only earner. Our mortgage is £400, we have a paid off old car, no subscriptions, don't buy new clothes (or new anything), no gas bill as no heating, electric is always in credit as we don't use much until winter, water rate is relatively low, food bill £50 a week as we grow loads of veggies and cook from scratch, no phone contracts (PAYG), no holidays. That's easy for 2 years. If I can do 1 or 2 days a week self employed, bank or if my work will allow flexi work then I will.

You'd have to declare any self-employed earnings and they'd reduce your UC.

I redid the calculation based on you having a self employed income of £100/m, and that reduced your entitlement from £344/m to £289/m.

I think it's highly unlikely you'll get any UC if you're working part time plus have self employed earnings, plus your DH works 40hrs on above minimum wge, sorry.

But all your self employed earnings and your bank work will reduce your UC claim by 55p for every £1 earned, so you will rapidly end up wit near enough nothing from UC.

I don't really understand why you would choose to disadvantage your child by raising them in poverty, when you have a profession, and could raise them in comfort?

Just go back to work part time (0.6fte ish), ideally with compressed hours (e.g 2 long days). That will be by far the best of both worlds, and will allow you to give your child a good standard of living.

I'm not choosing to disadvantage my child or put us in poverty. I'm trying to ask people questions so I can better understand my options and what I could potentially do. I'm looking at all available options. As it is, I have learned from asking these questions and taking time to read the responses that I will be better off working. I just need to get my employer to agree to reduce my hours. The problem arises if they decline.

If I didn't ask, how would I know? I just asked about theoretically claiming and so many people felt personally offended. Also, I'm talking about 2 years, not the rest of my working life and people are talking as if I'm going to be be some life long scrounger. As I've said, I've paid my taxes all my life (and continue to) and never claimed a penny. I'm fortunate that I can still earn a reasonable amount on 2 days a week but if I wasn't a clinician - if I was a cleaner or a HCA or a ward clerk that wouldn't be much take home pay and I totally get why they would claim UC.

The calculator on the Entitled To website is very accurate as long as the data the user puts in is also accurate. Even the slightest discrepancy can throw the figures off massively.

At that income no, he wouldn't have any work search requirements.

With him at full time and you at part time, it is extremely unlikely you would qualify for any UC at all unless you literally only worked a handful of hours per week.

Self employment earnings on UC can be a minefield. It doesn't matter whether it is taxed or not. They still take it all into account and may apply something called the MIF if you wanted to look that up.

@Halie

Can you not see that in the instance your employer doesn’t grant you part time, or if you were HCA, rather than staying off and claiming UC the most economically sensible thing to do is.. go back to work?

The most sensible thing to do for my family is find a role that is part time and leave my current role after I fulfil my contractual obligations.

How will you heat your home for your child? Have you factored in that cost?
What if your husband looses one of his jobs?
There are more than 1.9 million young children in childcare in the UK so statistically lo is more likely to be hurt at home ...choking, falling, in the car etc. so I wouldn't use that as the excuse just say I don't want to go back to work....is your husband happy with this whilst he presumably wont be home much and when he is you will be doing your own business.....working while caring for a toddler just doesn't work.

I’m have you worked out if you’re eligible for tax free childcare + free hours?

I would respond but you're obviously mad about something and projecting. Have a good evening.

The most sensible thing you can do, if you're a permanent contracted NHS staff member with all it's associated perks (pension/sick leave/carers leave/death in service benefits/generous annual leave/incremental progression/generous redundancy package/ill health retirement options to name just a few) is to remain on your NHS contract without a break in service. Of course, you can look for another role within your trust and keep continuous service, but breaking your service will cost you a fortune, and significantly impact on your future outcomes.

Trust me, as someone older than you, whose peers have gone through this, long term outcomes for women who give up their careers to care for their children are significantly worse than for those who kept their careers active and current. Very significantly.

That is why I said economically.

I think being a SAHP, without making huge sacrifices that limit both yours and your family’s quality of life, is not really accessible to the working class nowadays. It’s a middle class privilege that most people can’t afford.

Is there anything specific that puts you off going back full time, particularly as you’re the higher earner in one stable job?

I cannot wrap my head around how it makes financial sense to lose the higher income, when lots of family’s make two FT working parents work.

Think about the future and how you want your lifestyle to be (not what mumsnet tells you it should be) if you’re happier to forgo holidays and material things and a massive pension etc to spend time with your children when they’re toddlers then there’s nothing wrong with it at all. If you’ve done the sums and you can survive for a long time (not just while you’re out of work now but when you return to work) on a lower income and being the default parent then go for it because they’re only small once.
If you can work very part time / freelance / weekends etc you could get away with waiting til your DC are 2 1/2 /3 ish until they go in to childcare.

Use the entitledto calculator to see if you'd be entitled to the childcare element of UC if you did return. This can be used to pay any approved registered childcare provider, including a childminder. You could then return 2 days to maintain your position for a few years and not have the astronomical childcare costs (of course, if you're in England, the 30 hours will be available to you).

Another avenue could be requesting a sabbatical career break so that your position is safeguarded. This does require an application, and the criteria/offer differs depending on where you are.

I wouldn't dwell too much on the decision right now anyway. Soak in those moments you have with your child. Once the hormones subside and you have more sleep, a decision that is best for YOU will be easily made. Don't listen to all the hate.

I'm just asking if you've considered these things for example you say you have no heating you can't have a baby in an unheated home through winter so there will be a cost even if it's paraffin or wood.....I'm starting to think you've made this up because you have a chip....lots of people are in your income situation for example but you rant on like your the only one who is in a social benefitting low paid role.....many use food banks in your circumstances it's not just you..

For ops info....The 30 hours works out around 22 if stretched. You can claim the childcare element for anything paid on top. Childminders tend to be cheaper and more flexible

Yes, that's what it seems to be. It's massively disappointing although it could be far worse from what I read about American maternity leave.

What specifically puts me off going back full time for the 2 years after mat leave? Honestly, it's obvious to me and even the question feels odd (almost like I have to justify my biology). The answer is: My instinct to care for my child myself and knowing that I will never get that time back. That feels completely natural to me. I find it odd that people feel the need for a mother to justify why they would want to do that? A 1 year old is just a baby. Why would I want them in the care of strangers? If I could be at home with them until 3 then I would. That's fine if others feel different. It's frustrating that some get a genuine choice whilst others don't. I do understand why some make a lifestyle of benefits- not by any means saying it's right. But it feels like doing things the so called right way has got us nowhere.

My DH is happy to work rather than be at home, especially as he is passionate about his work and trying to progress. He doesn't intend to stay on low wages and is actively pursuing higher paid roles.

I'm absolutely definitely not misinterpreting the research - I wrote one of my masters dissertations on it! It's possible that new research has been published since (it was 12 years ago,) but I'd need to read the studies and determine any bias before concluding.

Well yes, but our economy should not be set up to require 2 working adults to make ends meet. If the economy was set for 1 working adult then the benefits wouldn't be needed.

I said we have no central heating/gas. It's actually common where we are as we're not mainland UK therefore no gas supply and we don't meet the safety regulations for space to have cannisters installed. Therefore electric heating. Our house is well heated for baby. It costs a fortune but it is currently 20 dgs. Don't know what your point is.
We're not eligible for food banks? He earns mid 20ks and I 30 odd. So we don't qualify for anything. Still don't get what point you're making other than you don't believe my circumstances or that you're unhappy I've expressed how shit it is that we've worked hard to end up with far less than a lot of people on benefits. Regardless, you offer no helpful advice so don't see the point in your responses.

@Halie I very much agree that choosing to be a SAHM is becoming or already is the preserve of those who can exist on one salary, and that this prevents a realistic choice for you and so many. This is sad and doesn’t give any choice to so many “basic wage” families. I know life is unfair and there will always be high and low earners, but to remove any possibility of being able to afford to stay at home for people who do very necessary jobs in society, but dont earn enough, things have gone very wrong.

Whilst I still think benefits should be a safety net (and a decent one for all in society) I don’t think they should be a choice linked to a desire or otherwise to stay at home. But I totally get your points and natural - for you - wish to care yourself for your child.

Root causes here as said earlier - the huge costs of housing (rent or buying), wages for the many too low (whilst the few seem to be better off than ever), and cost of childcare. Partially also desire for “stuff” (which I can read isn’t how you are!). I don’t think any political party has the answers as what we have now is the product of the last 40 years. Example the disposal of public housing (never replaced) and subsidies to employers so they keep many on low wages at no cost to them, quite the reverse. All those top up in work benefits just imagine the good that could be done if that money could be used to invest in other benefits or investments in society. I can’t help wonder when I see profits of our major supermarkets how much of that has been subsidised by shit wages thst their hard working employees have to turn to the state to boost.

Wishing you and your family well with your little one and whatever you decide. Also thanks for the thread - I have listened and learned a lot from you and other posters.

As far as I'm aware the 30 hours is only in England for under 3s. So doesn't apply to us. The only thing I can find that we are eligible for is tax free child care which would still leave us with a 700quid bill per month as far as I understand it. As far as I've gathered we can't get UC. There is nothing else.

Where do you live?

In England all children over 9 months receive 30 hours term time starting the following term if parents meet the income level. The funding can be used at all registered settings....nurseries and childminders and can be stretched if the setting allows. With a maximum 10 hours a day.