Struggling to cope with 7yo

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Sorry, it's a long one. I'm at my wits end. My 7yo DD has constant tantrums and meltdowns if she's told no or asked to stop doing anything and I just can't take it any more.

A lot of it is screen-related - we noticed a pattern of awful meltdowns when screen time is over and she's told to turn it off (despite regular warnings and a digital timer to count down how much time is left).
We limit it to an hour or two at weekends now, we pre warn each time that if we ask her to turn it off and she kicks off she won't get it again for a week and we try to follow through with that (although DH struggles if he's WFH after school pickup and will sometimes give it to her while he's on a work call for example as she's asking relentlessly and refusing to find something else to do).

We have to ask a thousand times to get her to do simple things (get dressed, brush teeth, finish a meal etc) which is normal child stuff but if we say something like "if you dont get dressed now you won't have time to play with your toys before we leave for school" she moans because she wants to play but she still won't get dressed because its boring and it takes too long. And on and on it goes until I end up losing my rag, I'm on the ceiling, one of us is crying and we're rushing around inevitably running late.

She cries about everything. Everything. Kid next door cant play out as he's having his tea. There's not enough of that cereal for breakfast so you'll have to have this other one you like instead. I can't listen to her howl any more.

Recently she's started to have meltdowns where its like she's in a trance she can't snap out of, an example being she was at a bowling party and she wanted money for a toy grabber machine, we said no because every time she doesn't win she throws a huge snotty crying tantrum without fail - she went off on one, repeatedly screaming "i want a toyyyyy" until we carried her out to the car and then she unbuckled her seat belt and tried to run across the car park back inside - i caught her before she narrowly missed getting run over. It was so out of character for her i couldn't look at her for hours.

These meltdowns are getting more frequent. I'm at a point where being ignored and repeating myself and listening to the moany voice and howling crying is chipping away at my sanity.
I try and remove myself to calm down before I shout but she just follows me, howling and repeating herself.

I feel like I go straight to losing my absolute shit now and I'm physically incapable of controlling my rage any more. And I know its pointless and gets none of us anywhere but I cant help it anymore. I think my brain is broken.

DH is an absolute equal parent, we share the load and he is at the end of his tether as well. He says he sometimes wants to leave because he's depressed every day - we cannot get through 24h without someone having a tantrum and someone shouting.

I'm doing and saying awful things - telling my DD I want to leave and never come back because of her behaviour, saying I want to kill myself - sometimes I do, mostly I'm just saying it for impact to try and shock her into behaving but it doesn't work either way. I know this is wrong but in the heat of the moment its like bile that spills out of my mouth.

I always worry my shouting and the things I say is going to ruin her - but she wakes up the next day as if nothing happened and asks me if she can have the ipad / a treat / something else, then when I say no because of your behaviour last night the whole thing starts again.

I'm exhausted. I have a stressful full time job and we have no childcare support because our families either can't help or dont want to.

I think I need medication or therapy or something but I'm terrified that if I say how I really feel I'll be referred to social services or something.

I feel like I'm failing at being a mum. It's my fault she's like this because I'm not consistent in my parenting because I'm never sure I'm doing the right thing.

I feel like I might have a stroke at any given moment, my stress levels are so high. My eyes throb, my chest is tight all the time. I'm in constant fight or flight.

I dont even know why I'm posting. Maybe someone can tell me what I should be doing because I'm clearly not getting anything right.

Thanks for reading if you made it this far.

Thank you - there has been some genuinely really helpful advice so honestly, thank you so much.

I've just been reading about PDA and I'm absolutely sobbing because I've failed my beautiful DD by not realising what she needed and that she might be struggling with anxiety and avoidance rather than just being petulant or "naughty".

Thank you so much - I will get help, I will be better

Good grief, cut the OP some slack.
She's posted in great distress and is at the end of her tether.
It won't help her to be berated.

No. The op has zero control over her own reactions. This could easily be the root of the issue.

Tablets are a massive issue, so we ban them. Unless it becomes inconvenient then she’s allowed free reign.

The things said to this little girl. Awful. Op then corrects herself, oh it was only once and I apologised. My kids would be beside themselves if I said any of that stuff to them and they are older.

So before everyone and their friend starts diagnosing this little girl look at the home life.

Chaotic. Traumatic.

What do you mean just no? There could be many factors causing this little girls behaviour

Hi OP I've got one like this. I'm not reading any consequences in your posts. Sorry if I've missed it. She's basically having a tantrum because she's not getting her own way. Mine kicked off for 30minutes at bedtime day before yesterday so I turned her tablet off an hour earlier than usual last night. This behaviour is unacceptable... And repeat.

I would be very cautious about going down the SEN route myself. If she is great at school and only kicking off when she's not getting her own way it's not SEN. Telling her she has SEN for behaving like a d*head will do her no favours whatsoever. She's obviously very willfull. She will likely go far in life.

Honestly try not to worry about losing your shit. But maybe try to say omg I feel so livid with you right now and repeat rather than I want to kill myself.

Some children are both more aggressive and more robust than others. Best not judge.

Please don't say you've failed your child.
You didn't know about PDA.
Now you do, so the thread has been helpful! It wasn't your fault that you didn't know.
I've got one child with PDA and an autism/ADHD diagnosis. They are an adult now and things are much, much easier.

Gosh! Sorry to hear about all this.

I’m a SENCO. What I would do with a child with this profile is get extremely pro-active, exhausting as it may be. If you’re going somewhere new, prep beforehand by talking about it loads/ showing pics of possible and trying to anticipate flashpoints. ‘There’s a grabber machine but we are not going to use the grabber machine, we will just walk past it’ etc. Now and next boards are good, but I just tend to draw them on a whiteboard rather than having the little cards. Visual timer is a nice idea, but what you can do if that isn’t working is something like this: https://www.instagram.com/reel/DE57WD9OvyL/

She basically needs to know what is going to happen and when all the time. It is disconcerting for children to not know what is going to happen next. This also means that when you say something is going to happen, it needs to happen every time no matter if she screams and howls. So really pick your battles in terms of what you say is going to happen. I always say to my son that we don’t compromise on safety or hygiene.

You’re getting enough flack for the stuff you’ve said and you know it’s wrong, so I won’t go on about it. But see your doctor for sertraline again and go to therapy.

Tablets are no good for anyone. Very addictive. Think of how hard it is for an adult to stop looking at their phone. She’s 7.

To summarise: maybe she has a permanent neurodevelopmental issue you can get diagnosed, maybe she doesn’t. Often trauma, attachment problems and issues with screen time look like other stuff. I wouldn’t really prioritise finding out one way or the other right now because you need to sort the home situation out first.

Ignore the arseholes. People who want to help, will help. Those who want to throw stones absolutely live in glasshouses themselves and put others down to make themselves feel better about their own shortcomings. I bet none of them are perfect by any stretch of the imagination - and they have proven this in the way they just make nasty comments with nothing helpful to add, they just want to kick people when they are down, and that is the cruellest personality trait.

It took courage to come on here tonight and I wish you and your family nothing but the best. Things have clearly come to a head, but with help it can all get better, starting tonight. But please do seek help - it is out there and you are all deserving of support to improve things.

The Explosive child is really good.
Avoid rewards and treats and consequences like the plague.
Read" How To Talk So Kids will Listen "by Faber and Mazlish.
Try to reduce the demands and one of the ways to do that is to simplify your child's day.
Screens are fine if you make them regular and low key not if you start bargaining with them or withholding as a punishment or using as a treat. Think of them as food/downtime/bonding whilst you watch TV together or do a computer game together or listen to a funny YouTube clip. Don't treat them as a babysitter just like you wouldn't expect your child to eat a meal alone
Home should be really low key and boring if she is bright and busy at school - yes it could indeed be masking.
Stop beating yourself up about failing and focus on small things that work and are working IE she is happy at school. So what if she isn't good at getting ready in the morning that's seven year olds for you you aren't a failure but factor in that it is going to take longer take some other stress away from your day to compensate

And don't reason with a seven year old - or a 14 year old - or a 36 year old...we respond to the words we hear with emotion not logic, whatever age we are

It couldn’t be anymore in your face just how chaotic and out of control home is. That’s your first step. You are genuinely telling me you recognise this as being a settled, on the same page, united family?

I feel really sorry for you and you definitely need some help. My 6 year old daughter can be very challenging and it drains the life out of me and sometimes I shout. Has she always been sensitive? Does she have any siblings?

I second the explosive child and how to talk so kids will listen. And being very clear with consequences. When I said I turned my DDs tablet off for an hour, that was incremental. So she was raging and kicking and hitting and I just had to stand and contain and say very clearly, you are mad you are not getting your own way, (normal but needs to learn to chill - that is called affect regulation) and if you carry on I will take five minutes off tomorrow tablet for every five minutes you continue. She then tried to kick me in the face so I doubled it. This carried on for a bit. She then lost steam completely, wanted a cuddle, I sat with her she fell asleep. Exhausting. Following day, I reminded her tablet going off early due to ridiculous performance last night. She did colouring instead and went to bed ok. Consequences are super important and help you keep calm OP. You haven't failed. Daughters can be really hard 💐

My DD was like this sometimes ; she was a twin and her brother had some SEN and I worked out that she basically wanted more time-in and time to bond but couldn't quite work out how to get my attention except by screaming and tantrumming. Every treat seemed to make things worse. She thought she wanted "things" but really what she wanted was to be listened to proactively. I started telling her made up stories in the evening just for her and trying to reduce all my telling off /instructions. She was actually very sensitive to being told off or getting things wrong; she has quite an acute sense of needing to fit in or be sociable and worried about her place in the world/ school/ family and I think that sparked her outbursts.
But she was good at making friends - it felt very odd that she was so "angry" with us. But it was overload and frustration.

She has turned out very well - she is 23 now but she is still a sensitive fiery soul

Consequences can create feelings of shame. Natural consequences are different. Like - the tablet is making you miserable so we won't use it much or this chocolate pudding makes you throw up so let's try sponge pudding but rationing things as a punishment is counter productive in my humble experience.
Shame works....for a bit...then it backfires...

Better to just make colouring the fun activity and the Tablet the boring thing than make the tablet the focus of "reward"

You are genuinely telling me you recognise this as being a settled, on the same page, united family?

Yes, I believe they are.
They've lost their way a bit with their daughter but I believe that they are willing to listen to advice, and that the child's father is very involved, too.

I think it depends on the child. I don't think consequences create feelings of shame at all. Shame is 'I'm a bad person, I'm bad.' Being told you can't watch your favourite TV show because you've done something wrong is not shaming. We all make mistakes and it's totally normal to be angry about limits. You just have to learn to regulate it. Long term, kids can be very thankful for consequences. Anyway, mum having enough and reaching her limit, you could argue, is a natural consequence.

I don't think I remember my parents ever issuing a consequence such as not being allowed to watch my favourite TV programme or forgo a treat. They didnt give rewards either except for things like learning to swim or swing yourself without being pushed, ride a bicycle. Never for school work or It seems an odd way to train children to use actual rewards of things or activities or withhold those things or activities. It was enough that you wanted to please your parents or the activity was satisfying or that they had allowed you to do it in the first place....it wasnt conditional on good or bad behaviour - it was just the way things were. We had our own ideas about what was fun and what was not fun and our parents didn't have to reward us, only encourage us.
Boundaries were set by not providing too many expectations or treats in the first place - so yes I suppose we had plenty of implicit boundaries but it wasnt a case of if you don't brush your teeth no cakes. There just wouldn't have been that many cakes around in the first place

Mind you we had plenty of bad habits but consequences wouldnt have changed them - we wanted to please our parents so positive affirmation worked better, if they had wanted us to do one thing instead of another that IS was what would have worked.

Oh OP I just want to scoop anll three of you up and give you a big hug.

Ignore those who are berating you to just do better. It’s like telling a drowning person to just not drown instead of throwing them a life raft.

It sounds like the Lee might be some underlying issues like PDA but that everything is being made worse by being caught up in a spiral of chronic high stress and disregulation that is exacerbating all your reactions.

You do need that life-raft of support right now. Did antidepressants help you previously? I have found they really helped my emotional regulation, I was much less readily triggered (particularly by my children).

Some kind of parenting support/course sounds like it would help, particularly support that is tailored to parents with potentially neurodivergent children. Not because you are bad or incapable parents but because you haven’t got the tools you need right now - either because you don’t know what they are yet (it’s not one size fits all) or because in your stressed out state you can’t access them.

It definitely depends on the child. Threat of a future punishment/consequence absolutely doesn’t work on my neurodivergent child, and yes they absolutely do feel shamed by it which really impacts their self esteem.

My more NT child is better able to link action and consequence and the more classic consequences framework works more effectively for him.

I think when you’re dealing with very disregulated behaviour like the OP is describing it is important to remember this is not a state the child wants to be in - they’re not deliberately choosing to be bad/naughty, they’re distressed. So trying to solve it with a punishment is really futile because it’s not like they’re thinking “if I have a massive screaming fit now, I won’t get screentime tomorrow so I will choose not to have the screaming fit”.

My 7 year old granddaughter is PDA diagnosed and ADHD and there are similarities in the behaviour your daughter is displaying. As you say it is anxiety when they feel out of control which causes the meltdowns and they go into fight or flight mode. Often it happens at home as they mask all day in school trying to fit in and then explode when in their safe place with a safe person. I am wary of keyboard diagnosing but would urge you to read up on it to see if you recognise your daughter in the profile of a PDA child.

Things which help are low demand parenting. PIck your battles. Transitions are sometimes difficult so routines may help. Also remember if she is PDA the meltdowns are due to her feeling anxious and not her fault.

Hi OP. I have got a very similar child and my experiences were very similar (including feeling suicidal and wanting to walk away).

My child also said terrible, terrible things to us on a number of occasions when disregulated. She also hit us, kicked us and spat at us.

She was also "fine in school"...

She was diagnosed with autism with PDA features and ADHD at 7. She is now 12 and attends a mainstream school with an EHCP.

Things that helped:

1. The books "The Explosive Child" and "10 Days to a Less Defiant Child", also Eddie Gallagher's "Who's In Charge?". The main reason they helped is to realise other parents go through this.
2. NVR training (look up Yvonne Newbold online).
3. Play therapy.
4. DH and I did couples' counselling. Our relationship was really damaged by all the firefighting.
5. The PDA Society website, PANDA strategies, helpsheets and on their listings I found a Facebook parents' group.
6. Letting the school know the difficulties we were having at home. They made some adjustments and helped us with the EHCP. The secondary school have also been helpful (I spent a LOT of time finding the right secondary).

Things that didn't help:

1. Family - they mostly just didn't get it and I had to distance myself from my mum and sister.
2. Trying to do things like other families.
3. Punishments. DD doesn't know why she does the things.
4. Being more authoritarian. It was always better to avoid the situation occurring in the first place than to deal with the fall out.
5. Seeing a psychologist. DD couldn't engage so it was an expensive waste of time.
6. Reducing screens (DD needs them to regulate), diet (not ARFID but genuine sensory difficulties), better sleep hygiene (needed medication).

If you can understand DD's needs better you will be better able to meet them.

Regarding her getting up in your face - the 10 Days book gives you strategies to avoid getting locked in conflict. Physically separate yourself from her - lock yourself in the loo if you have to. If you plan ahead you can lock yourself in there with a book and some coffee!

Do something for yourself each week. Put your own parachute on first. You can't help her if you fall to bits emotionally or physically.

Keep your job. SEN costs!!!

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/5309128-ehcp-support-thread-no-5?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=app_share I expect you will need this at some point. I haven't read your full thread but there is a poster on here called @bertieBottswhose advice I really rate.

Look if you haven't brought up a PDA child don't comment and don't judge, because you have no idea.