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Original poster

Mortified by my 4 year old - what am I doing wrong?

76 replies

TeainanIV · 31/10/2025 11:58

Having a really difficult time with my four year old DD at the moment. Her behaviour just seems to have massively deteriorated in the last 6 months or so. She throws huge tantrums, shouts and screams, constantly defiant, stubborn to the extreme and even hits us now and then. We never used to have such extreme behaviour and I can't help but feel like her Dad and I are failing in some way.

She's had a big year - we welcome DD2 last November and she's a very clingy baby. She's also started Reception in September and we're navigating all the feeling that come with that. I've struggled with a little PND after DD2 arrived but tried to keep that hidden from my eldest.

Today I've hit my limit - with a baby that's had hand, foot and mouth all half term and a four year old who never seems content. We've just had a playdate with a school friend and I am so embarrassed by her behaviour. I've had to carry her out of the house kicking and screaming because she wanted to go in to the garden but couldn't as her friend had an appointment. They had a lovely play together and she's spoiled it. I had to chase her around the house to get her to leave, all whilst she's shouting and screaming, hitting and kicking me. I'm mortified and could cry - it's only the second time we've had a playdate with this friend and both times have ended like this!

I feel like I'm failing her, we try and focus on the positives and heap praise on her for positive behaviours. We don't always get it right though, and I dare say she's feeding off some of the stress her Dad and I are under. We're both full time and have found this current phase of parenting and managing the house very overwhelming. I'm now worried it's rubbing off on our eldest.

I'm just so upset and really am not enjoying where we are at the moment. Feeling delicate so please advice is welcome but be kind 🙏🏼

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Original poster
TeainanIV · 31/10/2025 13:08

CurlyCabbage · 31/10/2025 12:46

Im not sure about the sticker chart /jar etc. it will just be another change and unnecessary added pressure for her.

A lot of the time the behaviour at home is worse than school because thats where children feel able to let lose and feel safe to ‘break down/ act out’. Please dont feel bad or mortified. It is just your child showing you that shes having an overwhelming time.

I really think she would benefit with some one on one time with you. Even if it is a little activity at home just you and her or after school and to make it a regular thing so its her time. A little coffee date or anything.

Shes been an only child for a while and is old enough now to notice a big change. It is not surprising and very common. Please dont feel bad about it.

I completely agree with the one on one time which is why I've been so gutted over half term as it's ended up not happening as her little sister has been poorly and not in nursery. I try so hard after school to give her that time but by the time I leave work, collect her baby sister from nursery and get her home from after school club the youngest is clinging to me screaming as she wants feeding (still breastfed) and my eldest is shattered. My husband doesn't finish work until 5:45ish and works in Wales (we're in Manchester). It's very tough at the moment

OP posts:
Original poster
TeainanIV · 31/10/2025 13:09

Wedonttalkaboutboris · 31/10/2025 12:49

Look up Dr Siggie Cohen online/on Instagram @TeainanIV - we went through a similar phase and it really helped us to re-frame it. She is a child development specialist with a PhD and has clear, tangible strategies you can actually use with young children. We looked up and read so, so much and I found her advice worked for us the best.

Edited

Thank you for this suggestion, will look her up as I've not heard of her

OP posts:
Original poster
TeainanIV · 31/10/2025 13:10

Blibbleflibble · 31/10/2025 12:50

OP your little girl sounds like a completely normal little girl. Tantrumming after playdates is normal, struggling with first term of reception (and in my case year 1) is completely normal. Struggling with finding her place in the family when she has a little sibling and lashing out. And the house being in chaos with 2 working adults and 2 small children. All ABSOLUTLEY NORMAL.

You are doing absolutley fine. You are in the trenches and this bit is fucking hard. I am so sorry you are suffering with PND, please be kind to yourself, lots of praise for your eldest when she is doing well. Honestly most parents have been there especially meltdowns at the end of playdates. Sending strength, it does get easier, I think my DC turned it around in reception after Xmas, but we're struggling again in year 1 with behaviour, even though we're doing our best and he is very much loved and set boundaries. So sending massive solidarity. Xx

Thank you ❤️ the trenches is how I'd describe it! I feel absolutely worn out and overwhelmed myself so god knows how she's feeling!! I really appreciate messages like this, it's nice to know we aren't alone!

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Original poster
TeainanIV · 31/10/2025 13:11

Teathecolourofcreosote · 31/10/2025 13:01

Do you tell her what's going to be happening and what your expectations are for her?

E.g for days out: we are getting out soon in a busy car park. I need you to stand next to the car and then hold my hand. Once we reach the venue you can let go and run around.

I will give you a one hour/ half hour count down when we need to leave the play date. You will then be expected to put on your coat and shoes and get in the car nicely. If we do that well you can watch Peppa pig when we get home.

Some kids get easily overwhelmed by things happening that weren't as they expected so being very clear and using simple language can help.

I also used a form of time out with mine. Sometimes they just needed to be taken to the hallway or somewhere quiet with the I have brought you hear because you shouting is giving everyone else sore ears. When you are ready to stop we will go back in (and ignore the rest until calm).

There's a state at which intervention is pointless as they can't listen so get in before if you can. And if it goes o er that sometimes they do just need to be put into the car. Tell them why but don't engage until calmer.

Both me and DH do try very hard to do this and usually it works but recently things just seem to be spiralling. I definitely get in my own head with it too

OP posts:
verycloakanddaggers · 31/10/2025 13:11

TeainanIV · 31/10/2025 12:16

It is harsh but that's where I'm mentally at. Our house is pure chaos - we're really struggling to keep on top of it. Husband works long hours and we're knackered. I'm not denying countless other families are too, I think for me personally my mental health ties in a lot to my surroundings. I also had a tricky childhood (whoooole other thread) and just want my children to have a better experience that I did. I think I'm beating myself up a lot at the moment but I'm just feeling very very overwhelmed and looking for advice on how others manage behaviour. Sticker charts? We do praise - we praise loads! But it doesn't seem to be working in those big moments

Show quote history

What I'm saying is give yourself a break. Often ignoring or distracting from behaviour, except hitting which can't be ignored, is the quickest route to change

Maybe a bit of positive recognition of what a good job you are doing is needed?

itsgettingweird · 31/10/2025 13:16

Rather than thinking about it as her needing consequences for her choices.

Flip into rewards for making good choices.

So before you go out explain you understand when things end you have feelings about that because you feel I disappointed etc. That she needs to take a deep breath and manage those big feelings. And when you get home you can do X.

children learn to manage big feelings and develop emotional intelligence at differing rates and you need to guide her before hand how to deal with that and also acknowledge those feelings.

A consequence without the teaching and help to manage won’t mean next time she magically manages to control her emotions.

Tell her she’ll have a 10,5 and 1 minute warning. That she needs to do X, and if she chooses Y her friends may join vote her again. Then tell her you know she can do X and you’re really pleased she will make that choice because then when you get home you can do Z together. And you love spending time with her doing Z.

You cannot stop her having the big feelings but you can help her not allow them to take over.

Didshejustsaythatoutloud · 31/10/2025 13:17

Driftingawaynow · 31/10/2025 12:34

You don’t have to impose punishment and I wouldn’t. It’s completely understandable that your child is very stressed,m by all the changes and she will be mirroring what’s going on with your stress and MH. Punishment is only going to make that worse for both of you. Do what you need to do, pick her up and remove her from the play date for example but you don’t have to impose “consequences “.
This is a tricky time of life, it will get easier very soon I’m sure. You do start to realise that you can’t actually control things like meltdowns, and sometimes that might mean worrying other people judging you hence your feeling mortified, that is about your anxiety and is for you to make peace with. I think starting with compassion for yourself, and then for her would be really helpful.

Aww, this is really lovely and helpful

maudelovesharold · 31/10/2025 13:21

This may have been suggested already, but at the end of play dates, for example, could you have something nice lined up to take her mind off the play date ending? I don’t mean buying things, or bribery in the most direct sense, but something she enjoys! 15 mins at the park on the way back, making fairy cakes together at home, making some play dough in her favourite colours…

maudelovesharold · 31/10/2025 13:23

maudelovesharold · 31/10/2025 13:21

This may have been suggested already, but at the end of play dates, for example, could you have something nice lined up to take her mind off the play date ending? I don’t mean buying things, or bribery in the most direct sense, but something she enjoys! 15 mins at the park on the way back, making fairy cakes together at home, making some play dough in her favourite colours…

Meant to add, the consequences for not co-operating would be not having the time to do whatever thing she had chosen.

Grizelofthechaletschool · 31/10/2025 13:25

I have a very similar 4 year old DD, although she is the younger. Also just started school, also regularly screams, tantrums and hits. In between she is delightful and she is also an angel at school. In our case she has always been like this, it’s not new behaviour, but I just wanted to say you are not alone and you are not doing a bad job ❤

One thing that (occasionally) works for us is a feelings chart. We try and encourage her to tell us when she is getting to 5 (ready to blow) - mostly she doesn’t but just talking through the chart helps sometimes.

pottylolly · 31/10/2025 13:28

Think about it from her perspective:

  1. You didn’t consult her before you had your second child. So now she’s gone from being the only child (something she probably enjoyed) to an elder sibling who is expected to watch on as mummy and daddy spend all their time with the baby. No child is going to handle that well.
  2. She’s started school. Reception is a huge jump from nursery. She’s probably hungry and tired when she comes home, and if at state school is probably expected to sit at her desk for longer than she wants. She might have new friends. She might have no friends if the school isn’t attached to her nursery.
  3. You have pnd. That’s a huge thing that affects your energy. I know you’re trying to hide it from her but you can’t. She probably sees mummy as being sad all the time, holding the baby, and she might not feel able or confident to go to you or dad for cuddles if you’re always telling her off.

I think, and it pains me to say this because I am so pro breastfeeding, but you can only fix this by stopping bfing the youngest (or reducing feeds) so you can spend more quality time with your eldest. Extended breastfeeding only works if it works for you, and you’re clearly tired and stressed and sad and if this is causing the baby to be even clingier (and preventing you from spending quality time with all your kids) just stop.

purple590 · 31/10/2025 13:28

My advice OP would be to give lots of warnings before any transition - especially one as upsetting as having to leave a lovely friends house that she is really enjoying playing with. So 10/15 minutes before let her know, then 5 minutes, then tell her last 2 minutes to finish off what they are doing.

Middlechild3 · 31/10/2025 13:36

Too much soft parenting.

Anditstartedagain · 31/10/2025 13:42

TeainanIV · 31/10/2025 12:36

Help has been sought and I'm feeling much better in regards to PND. Added to give context to the last year we've had but I wouldn't say it's impacting me currently. We do countdowns before leaving, she has plenty of warning, she'd eaten and drank plenty too, she sleeps well I think she's just overwhelmed and I dare say feeling a little out of control as her sister has been poorly and also she's had a mad couple of months with school. I've no doubts she's pushing more boundaries at home and out of home as a way of seeking more control. What I find hard is dealing with those behaviours in the moment. We praise her good behaviour lots and lots, I think I want a more consistent approach though to this - as others have mentioned down thread, a sticker chart or star jar sounds like a good idea

Show quote history

Some thing is really helpful is making expectation really clear before every activity. What is expected behaviour differs a lot between activities and it can be difficult for children to move between the different situations. If you’re going to park, explain that she must stay inside the fence, there will be no ice cream today and when it’s time to leave you need her to do so without complaining.

Overthebow · 31/10/2025 13:44

TeainanIV · 31/10/2025 13:08

I completely agree with the one on one time which is why I've been so gutted over half term as it's ended up not happening as her little sister has been poorly and not in nursery. I try so hard after school to give her that time but by the time I leave work, collect her baby sister from nursery and get her home from after school club the youngest is clinging to me screaming as she wants feeding (still breastfed) and my eldest is shattered. My husband doesn't finish work until 5:45ish and works in Wales (we're in Manchester). It's very tough at the moment

Show quote history

Does she go to after school club every day? If so then that may be part of the issue. School is a lot more intense then nursery so it’s a very long day for them. Is there a way you can cut back on this? I find my dd needs time to decompress after school before the whole reading, dinner and bed routine starts so I limit after school club to 2 days a week, and do one on one time after school before nursery pick up.

cestlavielife · 31/10/2025 13:49

She 7s 4 no big deal.
But more communication e g

Transitions. Give more warning. in 5 minutes we need to go. Setting timer now.
Use everywhere

Use a big egg timer at home and take it with you

One in bag one at home upstairs one downstairs

amzn.eu/d/2yEF8kp

DeliciouslyBaked · 31/10/2025 13:50

Have a read up on the "limbic leap". So common at this age. I have a 4.5yo and an 18mo and im sending solidarity because it is hard 💐

Original poster
TeainanIV · 31/10/2025 13:57

Overthebow · 31/10/2025 13:44

Does she go to after school club every day? If so then that may be part of the issue. School is a lot more intense then nursery so it’s a very long day for them. Is there a way you can cut back on this? I find my dd needs time to decompress after school before the whole reading, dinner and bed routine starts so I limit after school club to 2 days a week, and do one on one time after school before nursery pick up.

Show quote history

She goes 2/3 times a week. The days my husband works from home he collects her but still has to work when he gets home. I don't leave work until 5pm, I then collect baby from nursery and the cycle begins of feeding and clinging until bedtime!

OP posts:
Original poster
TeainanIV · 31/10/2025 13:58

Anditstartedagain · 31/10/2025 13:42

Some thing is really helpful is making expectation really clear before every activity. What is expected behaviour differs a lot between activities and it can be difficult for children to move between the different situations. If you’re going to park, explain that she must stay inside the fence, there will be no ice cream today and when it’s time to leave you need her to do so without complaining.

Show quote history

I agree completely and we do this, but in the moment it all leaves her mind. We do countdowns before leaving, layout expectations before we go etc. We just seem to be in a really difficult phase at the moment

OP posts:
Original poster
TeainanIV · 31/10/2025 13:59

pottylolly · 31/10/2025 13:28

Think about it from her perspective:

  1. You didn’t consult her before you had your second child. So now she’s gone from being the only child (something she probably enjoyed) to an elder sibling who is expected to watch on as mummy and daddy spend all their time with the baby. No child is going to handle that well.
  2. She’s started school. Reception is a huge jump from nursery. She’s probably hungry and tired when she comes home, and if at state school is probably expected to sit at her desk for longer than she wants. She might have new friends. She might have no friends if the school isn’t attached to her nursery.
  3. You have pnd. That’s a huge thing that affects your energy. I know you’re trying to hide it from her but you can’t. She probably sees mummy as being sad all the time, holding the baby, and she might not feel able or confident to go to you or dad for cuddles if you’re always telling her off.

I think, and it pains me to say this because I am so pro breastfeeding, but you can only fix this by stopping bfing the youngest (or reducing feeds) so you can spend more quality time with your eldest. Extended breastfeeding only works if it works for you, and you’re clearly tired and stressed and sad and if this is causing the baby to be even clingier (and preventing you from spending quality time with all your kids) just stop.

I think you're probably right on the breastfeeding which I'm slightly gutted about as I fed my eldest until she was ready to stop. But life is so much more hectic with the two of them and it's becoming a real challenge to manage both girls expectations and needs. I have tremendous guilt on not having the time with my eldest and this is a factor in that

OP posts:
Original poster
TeainanIV · 31/10/2025 14:00

Grizelofthechaletschool · 31/10/2025 13:25

I have a very similar 4 year old DD, although she is the younger. Also just started school, also regularly screams, tantrums and hits. In between she is delightful and she is also an angel at school. In our case she has always been like this, it’s not new behaviour, but I just wanted to say you are not alone and you are not doing a bad job ❤

One thing that (occasionally) works for us is a feelings chart. We try and encourage her to tell us when she is getting to 5 (ready to blow) - mostly she doesn’t but just talking through the chart helps sometimes.

Thank you ❤️

OP posts:
Original poster
TeainanIV · 31/10/2025 14:00

DeliciouslyBaked · 31/10/2025 13:50

Have a read up on the "limbic leap". So common at this age. I have a 4.5yo and an 18mo and im sending solidarity because it is hard 💐

Thank you ❤️ I'll have a read of this

OP posts:
Anditstartedagain · 31/10/2025 14:02

Reading your other posts on this thread I think she is just exhausted, overwelmed and wanting more time with her parents.

Are there any tweaks you can make, on the days DH works from home can he spend time with her even for 30 mins and log on later or even sit in the room with her on the sofa and works while he watches TV? Do you have 1:1 time with her every weekend, maybe go to the library and costa? Anything which is regular and predictable.

Overthebow · 31/10/2025 14:05

TeainanIV · 31/10/2025 13:57

She goes 2/3 times a week. The days my husband works from home he collects her but still has to work when he gets home. I don't leave work until 5pm, I then collect baby from nursery and the cycle begins of feeding and clinging until bedtime!

Show quote history

Could your DH spend time with her after school instead of working and catch up on work later or reduce hours? Its not great for either of them if he’s working whilst he’s supposed to be looking after her, what does she do during that time?

ChicJoker · 31/10/2025 14:09

OP, without sounding a twat I’m known amongst my friends and family for having impeccably behaved children and people often call me for advice on how to manage things.

my number one/first rule is any unwanted behaviour, you warn them to stop and make it clear if they don’t then the punishment will be X. If they continue, you action it immediately.

you have to see it through every single time and they have to KNOW you mean what you say. So don’t make large threats or ones you’ll cave on EG if you carry on screaming we’re going home, and then you don’t go home (only a detriment for you). Just be firm and they’ll follow.