Mortified by my 4 year old - what am I doing wrong?

[TeainanIV]

Having a really difficult time with my four year old DD at the moment. Her behaviour just seems to have massively deteriorated in the last 6 months or so. She throws huge tantrums, shouts and screams, constantly defiant, stubborn to the extreme and even hits us now and then. We never used to have such extreme behaviour and I can't help but feel like her Dad and I are failing in some way.

She's had a big year - we welcome DD2 last November and she's a very clingy baby. She's also started Reception in September and we're navigating all the feeling that come with that. I've struggled with a little PND after DD2 arrived but tried to keep that hidden from my eldest.

Today I've hit my limit - with a baby that's had hand, foot and mouth all half term and a four year old who never seems content. We've just had a playdate with a school friend and I am so embarrassed by her behaviour. I've had to carry her out of the house kicking and screaming because she wanted to go in to the garden but couldn't as her friend had an appointment. They had a lovely play together and she's spoiled it. I had to chase her around the house to get her to leave, all whilst she's shouting and screaming, hitting and kicking me. I'm mortified and could cry - it's only the second time we've had a playdate with this friend and both times have ended like this!

I feel like I'm failing her, we try and focus on the positives and heap praise on her for positive behaviours. We don't always get it right though, and I dare say she's feeding off some of the stress her Dad and I are under. We're both full time and have found this current phase of parenting and managing the house very overwhelming. I'm now worried it's rubbing off on our eldest.

I'm just so upset and really am not enjoying where we are at the moment. Feeling delicate so please advice is welcome but be kind 🙏🏼

Oh and as for the hitting etc that’s an immediate consequence and time out. Just repeat repeat repeat until she gets the message

Can you speak to your HV? Go on NSPCC website they have lots of advice? Speak to school staff? Sometimes I’m sure it’s hard to see the wood for the trees, maybe an outside, more subjective eye can spot patterns or tips that you can’t see when you are tired and stressed. Really feel for you. I know you had a hard childhood and you say you want to make it better for them, I’m sure the very fact that you are trying and asking for help and advice shows that you are doing an amazing job, even in hard circumstances. Be kind to yourself, you are doing a good job, if you make a mistake you just try to keep going and to do better when you know how. That’s such a good example for your children

Playdates are always a nightmare to end. I regularly have other children removed from my house like that but they're all the same at that age. Transitions are hard so next time do a count down (leaving in 10, leaving in 5...) and have something better to tempt them out.

Don't discount hunger too. They're growing a lot!

www.nhs.uk/baby/babys-development/behaviour/dealing-with-child-behaviour-problems/

I'm sorry you are going though such a hard time.
I'm not mother of the year, and can be a bit quick to lose my temper.
However in terms of managing exits and public behaviour I have generally gone down a path of being quite 'controling' - I recognise this isn't for everyone. But as well as doing the 10 minute / 5 minute warning etc, you get yourself ready and then physically get your child, hold their hand and put their coat on. There's no more asking - you are in charge and make it happen. No 'please get ready now' - you get them ready and if they are sad, then too bad. They knew it was coming and you limit the 'drama' time, because you're already as ready as can be. So it's just shoes/coat- out the door.
Same in any shop etc, it's time to go - no negotiating - get v firm and out of there.

I tried to 'move on' flpr get out of the reason for the bad behaviour as quickly as possible basically.

I realise it won't always work with a v difficult child.

Sending solidarity as I had a very similar time with my DD when she started reception, and she was an only child so wasn’t dealing with a new sibling as well (though my mum had died earlier in the year, so I probably wasn’t the best mum I could be at that time).

She was fine at school, by all reports, but we had tantrums at home and when we were out, especially with transitions. If we went anywhere, I’d always explain the plan for the day, give ten minute and five minute warnings about stopping, and we’d still get tantrums. It was stressful, and looking back DH and I could have handled it better.

The description of your evenings stood out for me - when your DH picks up DD from school, you say he goes back to work so he’s not spending any meaningful time with her. I’m guessing she is left to watch TV or similar? Then you come home in a rush from picking up the baby from nursery, who clings to you all evening. From DD’s point of view, she’s at home but her dad isn’t spending time with her, then you come home and spend the evening dealing with the baby. I wonder if she’s feeling quite neglected by both of you. She’s had a lot to deal with (new baby, school, mum with PND), and these tantrums are all those emotions coming out.

This this this.

My son struggled SO MUCH with becoming a big brother (also aged 4). Things are so much better. She's little. She'll get there. It's just so hard on you in the meantime.

Check out Ashleigh Warner at Raising Humans Kind.

I think the evenings is pretty much what happens - I know DH tries to play with her a little too or get her colouring and playdough out but the TV often gets put on. It makes me want to cry in all honesty as I feel awful. We're both just overwhelmed with it all - his work is very stressful and he's working all hours of the day at the moment. Mine is equally tricky with little flexibility. I think the added complication of baby means she's just not getting our time. I'm going to sit down with DH tonight and try and hash out a new plan because something needs to change.

See I think she'd lose it if I started doing that - I'm just not sure it would work. But I'll give anything a go!!

Thank you for all replies so far, trying to respond to each one but if I've missed any please know I'm grateful and am taking it all on board! I really underestimated how hard having two kids would be (those with more, you are heroes!!). Wishing either me or DH could reduce our hours - even if one of us went down to four days a week! But finances just won't allow it. I am praying this is a phase and that once DH and I sit down and put a plan of action together we start seeing some positive changes 🙏🏼

Thank you ❤️

If DH can work later in the evening instead, he may get more done as not distracted by colleagues emailing or on Teams. That might be a win for him and DD if his employer will allow it.

Stop breastfeeding asap.

When you get home, put baby in a cot / bouncer / playpen / baby chair, with a biscuit and/or sippy cup or bottle, and go spend 20 mins uninterrupted with DD. If possible, go into another room with DD (could baby be in with DH?), but if not possible, train yourself to ignore the baby crying/calling out for you while you focus on DD and just chat to her or read a book with her or do some drawing together.

Make sure you are not in the habit of always responding to baby crying and therefore making DD wait. It will do baby no harm to be ignored for short periods.

She sounds like a pretty strong willed four year old and she’s pushing the boundaries - we definitely had that too. It was so hard to get it right. Looking back best advice would be let her feel that she has some power to make decisions sometimes as I think feeling powerless made her worse but then be firm and consistent with the battles you choose. Consequences never did much for us as in the heat of the moment she just couldn’t link it or change her behaviour. Tended to just go for wait it out and not back down then lots of hugs when she stopped the behaviour. Gradually she learnt to recognise when she wasn’t ‘winning’. Now a little bit older outbursts are much less frequent and generally quicker to accept she needs to do as she is asked.

To re write your play date ending, your daughter did not cope with leaving. You kept the boundary and didn't just let her do whatever she wanted. Her friend had a nice time while they were playing and did not judge her, or feel anything was ruined, as she is also a small child.

You are being hard on yourself. Nothing you have said seems out of the ordinary for a 4 year old that has recently experienced a lot of change.

I do echo that clear future setting helps, with gettingher to repeat back so you know she heard. Eg "in half an hour we will be getting our shoes and jackets on and going home. Dd what did I just say is going to happen and when?"

I’ve not read all the responses but what I would suggest is keep all play dates etc short & sweet. Much better just to allow an hour & for it to go well, then stay longer & encounter problems. Being outside would be best too, just wear weather appropriate clothing.

I’d keep it very simple with her. Lots of praise but go over boundaries e.g. if she doesn’t do as asked then you will leave immediately and there will be a consequence for not doing it (give her a warning first like 5 minutes to go or similar).
Any hurting means a consequence and she is removed from whatever you are doing immediately.

I’m so sorry for all parents who have no choice but for both parents to work long hours just to keep the wolf from the door. We were not wealthy at all and never had posh cars or holidays abroad but we were able to carve out time for the children. I know it’s so much harder now. 😍

Our DD is now 5 and generally quite nice. But also had a really bad period when she was 4…waaaay more tantrumy and screamy than 3. We were very disappointed as everyone said it gets easier blah blah! Tried everything…made no difference. Then one day she snapped out of it. Kids are a mystery!

DS seems to be at his worst when hungry. Though even when this is the case he can complain about any food put in front of him at meal times and need coaxing to eat but then once he’s eaten something calms right down.

So OP. Perhaps it’s some of the decisions you’re making for her eg the play date today. Perhaps she needs a day in front of the telly or playing with her toys in her room. Watching a movie or reading a book?

An angel at school and like this at home couch suggest neurodiversity, don’t necessarily think about shouting at her or telling her off. When she’s calmed down sit with her hold her tell her you love her.

You’re not doing a bad job it’s just there age! Be kind to yourself seek help and get support

Stop giving yourself a hard time.
My child always screamed the place down when he left preschool/play dates etc etc. I also found it mortifying - it's easy to say don't use that language, but when it is happening day in day out, it is so hard. I felt rejected by him, like whatever I did wasn't good enough.
I always used to talk to mine in bed. Bathed, warm and comfy, I would ask about their day, we would talk about worries etc. So one night, we talked about him screaming after play dates. I said that it felt like they didn't want to come home. He said that he just liked the toys and didn't want to stop playing. I explained that I understood, but that some days it would be lovely if he greeted me with a hug, rather than running away. The next day, he screamed "Mummy" at the top of his voice and ran towards me and hugged me so tightly. It all got so much better after that conversation.
Talk to her.

Hi OP,

I work in child development services and I also have a two year old and relatively newborn twins. Her behaviour has been really tricky since the twins were born and it is totally circumstances that we are living in at the moment. She just isn’t getting enough connection with us and is really struggling in lots of ways (her behaviour is just one ‘symptom’ of that). We have actually got to the point of having to get care support on the weekend to ensure we can spend more time with her on her own, because similar to you during the week my husband isn’t around, she’s in nursery long hours and her sisters are always there and have greater care needs. The TV is on often.

I have found that the days where we have more support so can be with her more have made a huge difference and overall she is a lot happier since we started doing this. Obviously we have been lucky we’ve been able to afford this but if it is an option at all to have some support to get to do some special time with her regularly then try that.

Also, you are describing quite typical behaviour for 4 year olds, particularly given the circumstances. Using punishment or consequences on the moment is going to make things worse. Ideally you want to motivate desirable behaviour through things like praise and rewards but also she needs to feel safe and connection when she is in those moments of overwhelm. What we do when this happens is just stay near our child and tell her we’re here when she’s ready for a cuddle. Sometimes she will let me hold her hand whilst she screams or cry’s. Sometimes she’s so overwhelmed I can’t talk to her because she’s beyond the point of being able to listen, so I just stay as close as I can and sit quietly with a kind face waiting. I don’t care if it’s embarrassing, I’ve recently been sat near her on the floor in the airport waiting for her to be ready. She always gets there, even if it takes half an hour. Once we’ve done that I validate her feelings and hold the boundary- so we talk about how she felt a bit sad because we need to leave and show her I understand that but then we still leave the place or activity. I think the key here is how you view ‘behaviour’. Instead of viewing it as something you need to change or fix to avoid your own embarrassment , try to shift your perspective to have as much compassion for her as you can in the moment and remind yourself that literally everyone’s kids do this sometimes. It just gets a bit worse when things are off balance. The fix will come as you model to get how to manage emotions in an appropriate way and help her to feel secure even when she feels overwhelmed.

I would say though that addressing the cause is also important and it seems quite obvious that it’s about needing more connection with you and your partner, so trying to find a way to navigate that is improtant.

I was taught a strategy for managing a child who didn't handle transitions well, the exist called it "repeat ignore", but I don't know if that's the actual name.
We had a child who we found hard to get back inside at the end of playtime. She'd run off, and one of us invariably ended up chasing her and trying to cajole her back inside.
The method involves repeat the action you expect the child to take. "Time to go back to class now". Then look away, don't engage, but also don't allow them to do anything else (closing doors, removing toys, etc, but not speaking).
Then turn to them, eye contact, repeat the expected outcome "we are going back inside now", then turn away, ignore, etc.
I was terrified that our child would hare off across the playground and take hours to track down, but without the reward of someone running after her, it took less than a minute for her to get bored and trot back inside. It was honestly stunningly effective.
Which is a long winded way of saying, don't chase her around the friend's house . Don't reward bad behaviour with attention. Stay calm, keep your voice calm and matter of fact. Look at her only to repeat the expected behaviour.
Time to go. Shoes and coat on now. Use doors and your own body to contain her but don't chase her if she runs away. She'll come back. Then when she complies, a quick thank you, let's go.
Got to be worth a try.

Is she jealous of her sibling, OP? She might be throwing tantrums as a way to get your attention. How much one on one time do you have with her, just the two of you?