Question about Punishment for Teenage Son

[Momhelp]

Hey moms,

So I got a call this week from a girl’s mom at my son’s school. Apparently, my 16-year-old was teasing her daughter again. The other mom was nice about it, but still, it’s embarrassing and frustrating. I’ve had several talks with my son about this same situation before, because this isn’t the first time he’s been mean to this particular girl. It’s like he finds something small to pick on her about and can’t seem to let it go.

We’ve had some behavioral issues with him over the past couple of years — not anything extreme, but he’s gotten a little too comfortable with sarcasm and being “the funny guy” at someone else’s expense. I’ve tried the typical punishments: grounding, taking the phone, extra chores, early curfews, you name it. But none of it really gets through to him. It feels like he just serves his “time” and goes right back to doing what he wants after the punishment is over.

This time, I decided to try something a little different — something that might actually make him stop and think. Since this girl is on the dance team, I'm thinking of telling him that this weekend he’s going to spend some time getting to learn what he keeps making fun of. Maybe making him watch three full episodes of Dance Moms, and afterward he’ll have to complete little multiple-choice quizzes I’d make about each episode. Today, I picked up a Taylor Swift magazine, and he’s going to either answer comprehension questions or write short summaries of what he read. He’s not allowed to use his phone, hang out with friends, or watch football until all of it is finished. (He keeps making fun of her for being a swiftie)

The reason behind this isn’t just to annoy him (though I’ll admit that’s a small bonus). I’m trying to make him actually engage with what he was mocking — to see that these things mean something to people and maybe even learn to respect them a little more. Plus, it forces him to do structured, homework-style tasks, which he absolutely hates, so it’s a consequence that fits his behavior.

I guess my question for you all is — do you think this is appropriate? I wanted something that wasn’t just “you’re grounded,” but also not mean-spirited. I want him to connect the dots that teasing someone for what they love isn’t funny — it’s hurtful and immature. Has anyone else tried this kind of “empathetic punishment”? I’m open to tweaking it or hearing other ideas that have worked for your teens, especially ones that make them think about how their actions affect others.

Parenting a teenage boy should honestly count as cardio at this point. Any advice, feedback, assignment ideas or creative ideas are welcome!

Thanks

This isn't about him valuing particular popular culture that girls like. It's about him respecting other people, especially girls and women, and respecting their boundaries. Sustained and likely sexualised bullying of a physically much weaker girl is serious behaviour which could have lasting psychological and educational impacts for the victim and which at 16 he is much too old for.

Addressing this is going to require:

• challenging whatever misogyny he's getting online and from his friends
• a new regime at home so he no longer sees you as an easily manipulated soft touch
• support from the school so you are all going in the same direction
• punishment for specific actions that he recognises as punishment such as phone confiscation
• focused constructive activity which helps him to develop empathy, self-control, compassion and responsibility.

If you're going to assign a TV show to help deal with this, it should be Adolescence, not Dance Moms. Have him watch it with you and a sensible male relative or friend, and talk through the attitudes and behaviour he may recognise.

Many years ago a group of boys in my class decided I was to be the butt of all their jokes, they were nasty bullies who ruined my school life and destroyed my self esteem. I still to this dsy consider myself to be the ugliest person on the planet. These bullies need stopping and no punishment is too harsh.

Tell him he has to learn one of the songs and he dance moves to the song. Tell him he’s going to perform it by Tuesday and it will be recorded. Let him know if he picks on that girl again the video of which will be shared with the girl and her mum.

Also ask him if perhaps he likes this girl and his actual problem is he doesn’t have the appropriate communication skills to do that without being a little turd about it. Take him out and teach him how to act on a date. How to speak to women. Then see if maybe he wants to invite the girl out as an apology and take her to movies and a meal. Make him work the cost off.

Are you on glue? She's not going to trust a word he says and definitely won't be wanting to spend any time with him. Would you date someone who treated you like that? Asking her out is just adding insult to injury.

He isn't bullying her because he likes her. He's bullying her because he's a nasty little shit who hasn't been brought up to behave better.

As for the blackmail video, are you 13 years old? He doesn't need to have it made a joke of, he already doesn't take op seriously. What he needs is stricter parenting and a punishment that actually deters the behaviour. Not a sodding dance video. Jesus...

I can see why you are thinking of alternatives as the traditional choices aren’t working.

But please no Dance Moms, that whole programme is taking the piss so definitely won’t encourage him to change his attitude,

Maybe watching a ballet would be better, but then a long conversation about empathy and why he feels he wants to make someone else feel bad. A quick laugh among his friends at her expense? It’s not banter if the other person is not on board - which she clearly isn’t.

Jesus.

Weirdly, I never find myself looking up to people who describe themselves as Alpha 🤷🏻‍♀️
OP, I agree with others who have said the dance questions may just add fuel to the fire. Take away what he cares about and ensure swift consequences are put into place each time there is a whisper of bullying.

It’s a moot point for anyone in Wales. Smacking is banned.

Your son is a bully. You’re lucky the other mum is choosing to reach out to you directly to try and resolve this. If I was her I’d be taking much more drastic action. Likely I’d involve the police too as he is harassing her. Sorry, your punishment is silly and will do nothing to stop this behaviour. He needs to lose his phone permanently. Internet access for homework only and grounded long term.

I see Mumsnet's answer to Andrew Tate flounced.

Alpha?? Jesus Christ.

What you don't realise is kids hate you for your humiliating physical abuse of if them.
Biggest sign of failed parenting is violence against a child.

And you'll change your mind when shown proof that it's damaging? After the damage is done??

You should be in prison.

Could it be that he secretly likes her and by default is behaving like an idiot because of it?! I remember in secondary school some of the boys in my year being total arseholes around the girls they had crushes on.
My eldest isn’t as old as yours but has a dry sense of humour and is sarcastic, he makes comments which miss the mark as he is a little socially inept.
We’ve had conversations on kindness, humour boundaries etc and slowly they seem to be sinking in.
I wouldn’t make him watch dance mums etc because that is almost making light of it yourself.
I would be having a pretty frank conversation about some of the consequences that come from being unpleasant to people, I said to ours that if something he said to someone made them give up something they loved or start avoiding school etc it could have life long consequences for them.
He is fully responsible for his actions and as it’s happening in school I would be working with them/asking them to implement some consequences. If it’s happening when lessons aren’t taking place, perhaps he needs to put somewhere where he can’t make his little comments.
One day if he doesn’t stop, he will cause harm or come to harm himself, a 16 year old with a smart mouth and belittling humour is one thing, a 20 something year old who is still like it will find themselves alone.
Is his Dad around to take him out and have a proper chat with him to try and get to the bottom of it?

I wouldn't 'punish' him, I would get him to apologise to the girl. Maybe write a card and take some flowers to her house.
I would also explain to him how bad he is making her feel, and what an effect that can have on someone.

I dont really understand some parents. And I say that as the mother of 17 and 13 year old boys. You’re actually considering having a TV marathon with this child who is clearly being a prat, and then make him write an essay?? Get a grip.
I would suggest you prepare your son for life in the real world, by telling him straight up that his behaviour is unacceptable and embarrassing, and then get him in the car asap. Go to that girls house and make him get out and go to the door on his own and apologise to both her and her parents for the hurt he has caused while you watch from the car. Only when kids have to face up to their actions head on will they really understand that their behaviours have consequences and they can’t hide behind someone else - or a computer screen.
I’ve made my own then-14 year old do this when he stole alcohol from me, got a mate drunk in a park and his mate passed out. No way my kids are going through life expecting to treat people like shit and get away with it, especially women. These kids will have to cope in the real world one day, where the people they hurt/upset/annoy/generally piss off wont have a movie night and a nice chat with them when they behave badly.

So he's basically bullying this girl. He's been warned and he continues. The punishments haven't worked so far, so they need to be harsher, make them longer. If he's lost his phone for a week, next its a month, after that its no phone. I'm biased as my child has been on the receiving end, but I zero tolerance for bullies.

Dance Moms and Taylor Swift quiz????

This cannot be real.

I see what you’re trying to do, OP, but I don’t think it will be at all effective. He probably won’t engage with the material much, he almost certainly won’t come to like Swift, or dancing, etc. If anything, it’s more likely to give him material to use against her in the future.

Do you have an older, ideally male, role models that he likes and could talk to him? I would suggest his dad but since you don’t mention him in your posts I’m guessing he’s not around? Your DS’s actions sound founded in a somewhat misogynistic world view (denigrating a girl for typically female interests) and probably from a place of fear about growing up (bullying to make himself feel more powerful because he doesn’t feel that way in normal interaction). So a man will probably have more impact than a woman, and teens are often pulling away from their mums so someone who isn’t you may be more effective.

Someone who would show him that an obsession with Swift is no different really to an obsession with ManU (or what ever sports team is most appropriate - some of what you write makes me think you’re maybe in the US?). That bullying others isn’t something that anyone worth admiring does and he makes him self look insecure and narrow minded by doing it. And, unless he’s likely gay, point out that it won’t help him develop decent relationship with women.

Ideally someone who will take him off every other weekend or something to watch a game/go camping/something he might be interested in that they are good at and can mentor him a bit, while imparting values about being nice to others.

The suggestion by PP of making an appointment at the school and seeing if they have any suggestions on tackling it together isn’t bad either.

The thing is if you don't deal with it effectively, and if your son doesn't stop (bullying her/acting like a little shit) teasing her, it might be out of your hands and the girls parents will deal with it. He could end up excluded for bullying or even find himself on the wrong end of an angry dad/uncle/big brothers fists.

Honestly, I think he writes her a letter apologising and showing understanding of how it has made her feel. He promises, in writing, that he won't do it again. You take him round to her house and be apologizes in person to her with her mum present. If he won't do it, you ground him indefinitely. Make him read some case studies about girls who have taken their life due to bullying (that case where lots of boys from a London private school were saying horrible things to a girl on WhatsApp. Make him realise the potentially serious consequences of his actions.

I agree with the in person apology. Make him face up to his actions.

A friends teen had a party that got out of control and she made him go round and apologise to the affected neighbors. Thought really well of the family doing that and he turned out to be a nice man. Appreciate his crime was far lesser.

That made me really laugh. Spot on

OP I think you have responded really well to this, the mum has reached out to you and you are clearly really trying to tackle this -
sounds like it is a long standing problem though, not a recent / random thing so you are absolutely right to tackle this head on

what is your goal ?
I would suggest enabling him to develop empathy - being able to put himself in the other persons shoes and have a sense of what they feel, and care about that -

I would be explicit with him about your goal is -
say I would not be doing my job properly as a parent if I did not ensure you had empathy

look up the definitions of bullying - get him to categorise his behaviour as what sort of bullying

and the mechanisms that he is using to bully - inciting humiliation, shame, embarrassment etc

can he think of times when he has felt these things ?

can he relate to how it would feel to experience that repeatedly, prolonged, in front of peers, to dread the next episode of bullying ?

look up self harm and suicide rates of young people - most of whom wont be under mental health services

many will have experienced bullying

many have experienced things that make them feel bad about themselves

low self esteem developed in childhood / adolescence can last a lifetime and be majorly debilitating

really try to strike a chord with humility in him, I would go with this until he is upset / ashamed and feeling guilty - then I would discuss why those feelings are justified and say remember what this feels like ….

and just thank your lucky stars you don’t have someone out there making you feel like that …

I think if he has been told never to speak to her, that his rejection of those boundaries should be dealt with by a ton of bricks. Of it was over the phone it would be harassment and criminal.

I would insist on a face to face apology in front of her parents. She should be encouraged to tell him never to speak or look at her, because it is all unwanted.

I know he thinks he’s hilarious, but the sooner someone (verbally) goes for the jugular, the better it will be in the long term.
You sadly, OP, are wearing the rosiest of rose tinted glasses. You see a nice boy- this poor girl just thinks he’s a bit of a boundary over stepper aka cunt. He should start to be told how other people view him. Watching Dance Moms sounds more like a way to shower attention on him.

If they at the same school ask if they do restorative justice - research has shown it to be incredibly effective