Question about Punishment for Teenage Son

[Momhelp]

Hey moms,

So I got a call this week from a girl’s mom at my son’s school. Apparently, my 16-year-old was teasing her daughter again. The other mom was nice about it, but still, it’s embarrassing and frustrating. I’ve had several talks with my son about this same situation before, because this isn’t the first time he’s been mean to this particular girl. It’s like he finds something small to pick on her about and can’t seem to let it go.

We’ve had some behavioral issues with him over the past couple of years — not anything extreme, but he’s gotten a little too comfortable with sarcasm and being “the funny guy” at someone else’s expense. I’ve tried the typical punishments: grounding, taking the phone, extra chores, early curfews, you name it. But none of it really gets through to him. It feels like he just serves his “time” and goes right back to doing what he wants after the punishment is over.

This time, I decided to try something a little different — something that might actually make him stop and think. Since this girl is on the dance team, I'm thinking of telling him that this weekend he’s going to spend some time getting to learn what he keeps making fun of. Maybe making him watch three full episodes of Dance Moms, and afterward he’ll have to complete little multiple-choice quizzes I’d make about each episode. Today, I picked up a Taylor Swift magazine, and he’s going to either answer comprehension questions or write short summaries of what he read. He’s not allowed to use his phone, hang out with friends, or watch football until all of it is finished. (He keeps making fun of her for being a swiftie)

The reason behind this isn’t just to annoy him (though I’ll admit that’s a small bonus). I’m trying to make him actually engage with what he was mocking — to see that these things mean something to people and maybe even learn to respect them a little more. Plus, it forces him to do structured, homework-style tasks, which he absolutely hates, so it’s a consequence that fits his behavior.

I guess my question for you all is — do you think this is appropriate? I wanted something that wasn’t just “you’re grounded,” but also not mean-spirited. I want him to connect the dots that teasing someone for what they love isn’t funny — it’s hurtful and immature. Has anyone else tried this kind of “empathetic punishment”? I’m open to tweaking it or hearing other ideas that have worked for your teens, especially ones that make them think about how their actions affect others.

Parenting a teenage boy should honestly count as cardio at this point. Any advice, feedback, assignment ideas or creative ideas are welcome!

Thanks

I get where you’re coming from with your idea OP, but he’s not picking on her because he thinks dance is silly and therefore if he learns more about it he’ll stop. You’ve already said that this has happened before with the same girl and that he “finds something small to pick on her about and can’t seem to let it go”. It’s not about a lack of respect for dance, it’s a lack of respect for her. He’s bullying her and will bully her over whatever he can think of.

“Alpha” always makes me laugh. The term came from studies of wolf behaviour in captivity and then got taken vastly out of context in pop psychology and applied to human males. Wolves in the wild behave completely differently and an “alpha” male wolf is actually fairly similar to an ordinary decent dad. Basically it was the equivalent of studying behaviour in prisons and concluding that human males wear orange jumpsuits and are obsessed with trading cigarettes.

But it makes a certain type of man feel good about using his fists. Sigh.

Boys do benefit from having strong male figures in their lives, not to beat them up ffs, but modelling how to be decent humans.

Yeh, I would agree I probably asked for that response knowing what the answer would be as I knew there was research to the contrary.

My take isn't faltered on it however, I do still believe that parents who physically discipline their children as and when deemed necessary, do so with the best of intentions and with the best of results. Again, there is a distinct correlation between what I am suggesting and what others would interpret it as being, such as from my perspective a random and infrequent crack if required as opposed to a lengthy period of physical discipline.

What is a 'crack'?

My response to you @markopolo2002 is to go away and do some thinking and reading, perhaps reread your own posts in the context of the answers you are receiving here.

Consider reading material written by authors other than Andrew Tate and also read up on the difference between physiological and psychological.

For example, you seem to have forgotten what you actually wrote about the girl being 'oversensitive'. Your later added context looks like back pedaling.

From a man who 'cracks his son in front of people' you are quick to point out overreaction in other people.

Must be grim living in a house where you enjoy nothing more than slating each other.

But it makes a certain type of man feel good about using his fists. Sigh.

Maybe it does, but then I'd call that type of man an abuser, not a man who is disciplining his child.

Boys do benefit from having strong male figures in their lives, not to beat them up ffs, but modelling how to be decent humans.

I completely agree, beating a child up is abuse.

Give me facts.
No not those facts.
I don't like those facts.
I knew you'd give me those facts when I asked.
My facts are right.

More red flags. Honestly, it's text book.

You clearly have a massive chip on your shoulder and consider me to be the type of man you clearly hate. Assumptions from you are rife, it's frightening that people like you are on forums like this with no aptitude to accept or digest context but snipe like a viper because you've seen a glimmer of something you hate. I'm not to be hated, I'm a decent human being with a family I love and they love me back. Slating each other is called banter, and more men do it to each other than you realise, or maybe you hate that about us too?

I wonder why he picks on this particular girl? Might she have rebuffed his advances at some point? He obviously feels especially aggrieved about something as punishments make no difference. Might he be being egged on by his peers under threat of bullying to himself?
If his bullying behaviour were general it would be awful but might make more sense. I can't help feeling that something specific to this girl is going on.
Does he openly admit to doing these things or does he defend himself and deny it?
Has the girl's mother spoken to school?
Why don't you try speaking to school about this .... tell them the messages you are getting from the mother. They may know behind the scenes stuff ... they might not be able tobtell you these things of course but they might have some sort of strategy they can use. It may be that this parent is a thorn in their side and always finding some problem ... or that the girl is oversensitive ... or that some incident has happened at school that they know about.
It is horrible when our children seem to be letting us down and behaving in a bad way.
I understand the strategy that you have suggested but I am not sure it is the right one. The dance thing is just a stick to beat her with .... the real question is why does he feel the need to beat her?

@Momhelp I admire your creativity, but I think the danger is that you’d be giving him ammunition.

It’s too easy to watch a dance show and sneer at it. If you want to go down this route, send him to dance class. Let him learn how hard it is. But don’t lean on the humiliation - he may take to it.

Is this happening at school? I’d get in touch and see if they will help. But if they’re useless (as I suspect because the other dp is contacting you directly) I’d give serious consideration to switching schools.

I had to contact a few parents over the years and while I kept it pleasant and polite, because I needed their cooperation, I didn’t always make it clear just how ragged my ds’ MH was. Getting him into a great school changed that but I’ve seen how other kids who are more prone to bully have also been guided and supported to direct their energy to positive things.

Your suggesting a gentle ‘punishment’ that sounds like a game not a punishment for a 16 year old.

Is he attracted to her but too emotionally immature to express it? Is this his way of getting her attention?

When you say he’s being funny at other people’s expense, do you mean he’s bullying other people? If he’s doing something to
someone repetitively, that’s exactly what he’s doing. He’s bullying them.

In the context of martial arts, discipline usually refers to self control.

But in parenting it’s the justification for losing control, and hitting someone smaller than yourself.

It takes a lot of discipline to keep your temper in check, reign in your ego, and connect with a child who is acting out.

There’s a very good podcast called The Calm Parent and you might find it helpful, because most of us didn’t learn great parenting skills growing up, and we don’t have better skills to draw on.

I do t understand why the mum is ringing you tbh. Are you friends? If I were her, I’d contact school to deal with your son tbh

God, do you want your son to hate you

I can assure you my son was not smaller than me when he was a teenager, he just had too much respect to even consider hitting me back but yes, I do understand where you are coming from because I don't share the same attitude with my grand kids as I did with my kids. I've never hit my grand kids, but I don't want to or I don't consider it my place, but the odd time they have been physically disciplined I have winced. I still think it's not something we should dismiss, I do still firmly believe that children sometimes need physical discipline, I'm not saying it's the best option, but when other things don't work and they have had multiple warnings then if it works, physical discipline has it's place I believe.

Again, I have to be very specific in my wording or I'll be hung out to dry again by the vipers, I would find a slap to the head for boys or legs for girls acceptable if absolutely required. I would only find this acceptable once or twice, thereafter sent to their rooms if it continued. Multiple hits at any one time would be a massive no no to me.

Again, I know it's not agreeable for everyone, and I wouldn't now either with the grand kids, but 20 years ago when my son was in his teens, it worked for him and worked well. He isn't a broken man, he is a kind and caring husband, father, brother and son.

The kid is 16 not 13. Way too old to still be doing this.

I was wondering this too. Was very common, if misguided behaviour, when I was a teenager.

"Snipe"
"Viper"
"Chip on shoulder"
"No aptitude to accept"
"banter - more men do it, you don't realise"

More red flags.

I don't hate anyone dear. I just recognise your type.

You have some kind of fascination with red flags for some reason, maybe you could enlighten us all what my red flags are and why, I for one may actually learn something about myself.

This!

@Momhelp your solution is ridiculous and he will just enjoy outwitting you. He isn’t bullying this girl because she’s a swiftie - it’s nothing to do with her or anything she does. He’s bullying her because he is a bully.
so you need to tackle that behaviour. If you don’t know how, find an expert. Ask the school for help. Take a parenting class.

Personally I’m not a fan of punishments but I do like natural consequences. Have a think about what that might look like. For example, I would suggest he writes this girl a letter apologising for his behaviour, being specific as to what he has done wrong. And he works on it to make it sincere, literate and honest. You can then give it to the mum who can choose whether it’s appropriate to pass on to her daughter or not.
I also recommend you get him involved in some kind of community activity that involves helping others as he sounds like he needs to develop some empathy. Even if he doesn’t ’get it’ this might teach him how normal it is to be nice.

Is it his way of flirting, getting her attention?

Are they at the same school?

It’s not an over reaction. Why should girls have to put up with utter nasty nonsense to bolster some 16 year little prick’s ego. Not on my time. I managed to create a man who behaves in a respectful way towards women. It isn’t hard.