French shopkeeper thinks English parenting is terrible

[Turquoiseforever]

Long one sorry, but I've included details to try and give an accurate picture!

Holidaying in France currently and have had a memorable incident in a shop today that has given me some food for thought, just interested in other people's thoughts on this.

Gave my oldest kids (3 & 6) €5 each to buy a souvenir of their choice at our local seaside town. Most shops turned out to be quite bougie and aimed at adults, but saw one which looked hopeful. Had an A-frame sign outside with a plastic colourful beach windmill on it, and a rack of children's clothes. Went in and quickly realised it was again full of very valuable things. At one end was a basket of handmade crocheted teddies, handmaid kids clothing, and some wooden toys. The kids took a look at the teddies, picked one up each then sat in two kids chairs holding them on their laps for a few minutes while I had a quick look round the shelves around them. We had a look at a few other things together, for full disclosure: when we entered my 3yo picked up a very delicate cup which I quickly set down and reminded her not to do. As we were leaving my 6yo very gently pointed out a necklace to me on a very flimsy stand that started to tip over, which I caught before it fell and set upright again. They looked at a few other things without incident or touching.

We didn't spend long, said merci and went on our way. About 10 mins later a lady from the shop approached us in the street and informed me my kids had broken two toys in her shop. We went back with her and found out that the rabbit teddies they had been holding had some very thin toothpick-like sticks of wood in each ear (to shape them a bit) which had been broken by my daughters twisting the ears, pretending to give them a 'hair style'. I had no idea at all they had been broken. Obviously this is my responsibility and error of judgement, and was totally correct to be brought to my attention.

However, the lady also subjected me to a rant about how French children would NEVER pick things up in a shop, they are taught "limits", whereas all summer she has had English, German etc children visiting and breaking things and being given "no limits" by their parents. Complained we had left the place a mess and her husband had to tidy behind us, because the teddies were placed back in the basket but not sat upright as previously displayed (I had set the chairs back carefully but admittedly been distracted from checking the basket).

I pushed back (calmly!) on her generalised critique of my parenting, and she said she has just lost patience after a summer full of similar experiences and essentially admitted this lecture wasn't personal. Still, it was pretty heavy handed to give in public in front of my children and other customers.

To be clear I know I made an error. We had been in a few quite breakable shops already which required heavy parenting, and I guess I saw an opportunity for a quick relief for us all. Normally I would supervise my children looking at anything handmade, so it was a lax moment, but I did think they were just wool and stuffing and wouldn't suffer at all from light playing. Also, typically I wouldn't take my children into these kind of shops. They have never broken anything in a shop before!

I just wonder how humbled I should be. Did I just catch this lady on a really bad day? Was she a bit racist? Are french children really that obedient all the time? Should I strike it off as a bad day and move on without too much thought, or do I take the criticism on board more strongly and accept I should be stricter with things like this and re-evaluate my parenting?! Do we really have much lower standards in the UK?

It's a shame, we've had a lovely holiday but now I feel like we're not that welcome here and have been judged/looked down on in general. Do we really have a terrible reputation in France?

No, but because we are English, we like to see the English language used properly.

The French appreciate conformity whereas the British prefer individual expression. This leads to different parenting.

I don’t think it’s right to let kids play with toys they’re not going to buy though. It’s not a library or a playground it’s a shop.

Was this Le Touquet by any chance? If so it’s a very upmarket coastal town jam-packed with snotty Parisians and also very expensive shops. I whisked my DD out of just such a children’s shop today, which was more of a concept boutique, where the average stuffed toy cost €50. It’s about parental judgment really, independent toy shops aren’t church play centres, they are intending to sell their products for profit. I think it’s on you to be honest, I don’t let my DD touch something unless we are prepared to pay for it: kids have mucky hands and don’t really understand the set up.

I think the key is that we behave differently on holiday. She mentioned Germans as well so it probably the behaviour of tourists generally that she is really fed up with.

As if all Scots are loveable rogues and don't partake in getting pissed etc abroad.

Why is this thread descending into a racist rabbit hole? Was this thread some kind of smart “click bait” to yet again stir the discussion towards polarised views?
theres nothing racist here, get over yourself!

I consider my self on the gentle side of parenting but even I wouldn’t have allowed my kids to play with toys I have no intention of buying. They are merchandise that she has to sell and if they are grubby, she might have to pull. I can understand why she got frustrated and perhaps it isn’t a race thing but a money thing - people who can afford to travel might not be as careful in their behaviour away from home compared to a local, who has a reputation to keep. The shopkeeper probably brought up nationalities because humans love making generalisations about other groups.

Incidently, I remember reading that the vast of online returns are binned and never resold. This is probably factored into the high prices we pay in a similar way to shoplifting?

Hopefully OP paid for them so her kids can break them to their hearts' content.

Even UK charity shops have signs asking parents not to let their children play with items they aren't going to buy. Light playing with something that isn't yours isn't ok, teaching children how to behave in public is really important, I think, for social harmony ...I guess French shopkeepers agree. As others have said they are very little to be unattended

Having witnessed French kids in my seaside town and in my shop I can tell you they are not all that well behaved, in fact everytime a group of them come in. Y shop is trashed. So unless they only behave when with thier parents, this is bullshit. You kids may have done something bad, don’t make them bad kids, I’m sure it wasn’t intentional, it’s not like they were walking around purposely smashing things in the floor.

I don't let my DC touch things in a shop like that. They aren't allowed to touch things in most kinds of shops. Maybe a toy shop, especially if there are demo items out for them to try out. However I probably just wouldn't take them into that kind of shop at all, if we did go in there thinking it was more of a cheap and cheerful shop and then I realised it was in fact still delicate/expensive and breakable I would be mentally going "Fuck, reverse reverse, everyone turn around right now". Mainly because despite not ever being allowed to randomly handle and touch things, they don't seem to have internalised the message and I find I have to remind them constantly, especially the 7yo but he does have ADHD.

I would stop them from snatching. I don't however bother to correct my just-turned 4yo when he insists he is nearly 5, or actually 6 or actually 10. It doesn't matter. It's not like he actually thinks that, he is just playing. If someone asked him his age in a serious context I expect he would give the right answer.

I do think that sometimes people have different behavioural expectations and not meeting those expectations is not necessarily bad parenting/bad manners, it's more of a culture clash maybe. In some shops, sitting on chairs which are provided and holding a toy and playing with it a bit in a gentle/careful way would be perfectly fine/normal, and it also wouldn't occur to me that a soft toy would have breakable parts in it, although I probably wouldn't let my child sit and twist parts of a toy. In fact it's interesting she said German kids did the same, because we live in Germany and most toy shops in Germany have toys set out at child level for them to touch and play with and try out, because if parents see their children enjoying toys, they are more likely to buy them. However, nothing breakable, like a pop-up book, or that would be ruined if a part got lost is left out, it's more big things like ride on toys, or something fairly robust like a wooden doll's house with skittle-shaped dolls and chunky furniture, or some Brio type trains or that Grimm's rainbow or similar. While the expectation exists to generally tidy up after yourself, there would also not usually be a pristine display which was expected to be left exactly as found, in fact a lot of things are open ended and creativity is encouraged. Children are not expected to wait for permission from adults about everything at all times and indeed are generally afforded a lot of independence compared to the UK. (I can't go on "what age would you let...." threads any more because German parenting norms have broken my UK perspective of what is OK!)

It's possible that in France children are genuinely brought up with more of an expectation that they must ask before touching things, even in an environment designed for children like a toy shop. If the shop is in a touristy area, then it seems strange to me that the shop owners wouldn't adapt to this, especially if they are losing stock due to it, but I suppose perhaps the majority of their customers are still French so they could see those behavioural expectations being met by most of the French children and hardly any of the English/German children and make an assumption from that pattern, but I don't think it means that English/German norms are wrong, they are just different and the environment is not set up with them in mind.

There’s that exact concept in the UK. Growing up in the 90s my mother would say ‘we look with our eyes not with our hands’.

The race equality directive specifically excludes nationality as part of race.

Years ago I heard a woman working on a supermarket checkout in France be super rude to a customer (was a while ago, from what I remember she seemed to lose it as was having technical issues with the card reader or something) and the customer was totally fine with it!!! In the UK that just wouldn’t happen!

Another worker in a clothes shop snapped at me as I’d tried clothes on and hadn’t put them back on the hanger (I would normally Tbf). I was slightly bemused that she was being paid to stand around (she was doing nothing) but still had a go at me for creating two mins of work.

The “customer is always right” culture definitely didn’t reach France 😆

The use of both racist and xenophobic are ludicrous IMHO. These sorts of comments are merely prejudice. To misuse racist and xenophobic is to devalue true examples of those.

Just the English? I highly doubt it.

And I would add, I think it's important to try to go by the local cultural rule when you're visiting somewhere, but you can't do that if you're not aware of it.

It's lucky the shop weren't selling items that appeal to French teenagers...

And ethnic origin? Does the directive only refer to skin colour?

They hide all the disabled kids away but that is okay because the "normal" kids are well behaved.

I'd wager she didn't as she'd have said if she paid for them in her opening post instead of waffling on using words like 'gently playing' etc.

Now she'll probably come back and say she paid for them (even though she won't have) because most normal parents would not let their children go unsupervised into a small shop making handmade items.

Nationality does not equal race. It could be xenophobia.

No, customer service is different in different countries. Just something you have to accept when you go abroad.

What you describe as "heavy parenting" l would just describe as "parenting" ie appropriate boundaries and supervision. I can't imagine allowing my children to play with toys we didn't intend to buy! Giving the teddies a hairstyle?
If she had a "rant", then she was in the wrong. However - you were, too.

This!
The way disabled children are treated in France and hidden away is shameful.