French shopkeeper thinks English parenting is terrible

[Turquoiseforever]

Long one sorry, but I've included details to try and give an accurate picture!

Holidaying in France currently and have had a memorable incident in a shop today that has given me some food for thought, just interested in other people's thoughts on this.

Gave my oldest kids (3 & 6) €5 each to buy a souvenir of their choice at our local seaside town. Most shops turned out to be quite bougie and aimed at adults, but saw one which looked hopeful. Had an A-frame sign outside with a plastic colourful beach windmill on it, and a rack of children's clothes. Went in and quickly realised it was again full of very valuable things. At one end was a basket of handmade crocheted teddies, handmaid kids clothing, and some wooden toys. The kids took a look at the teddies, picked one up each then sat in two kids chairs holding them on their laps for a few minutes while I had a quick look round the shelves around them. We had a look at a few other things together, for full disclosure: when we entered my 3yo picked up a very delicate cup which I quickly set down and reminded her not to do. As we were leaving my 6yo very gently pointed out a necklace to me on a very flimsy stand that started to tip over, which I caught before it fell and set upright again. They looked at a few other things without incident or touching.

We didn't spend long, said merci and went on our way. About 10 mins later a lady from the shop approached us in the street and informed me my kids had broken two toys in her shop. We went back with her and found out that the rabbit teddies they had been holding had some very thin toothpick-like sticks of wood in each ear (to shape them a bit) which had been broken by my daughters twisting the ears, pretending to give them a 'hair style'. I had no idea at all they had been broken. Obviously this is my responsibility and error of judgement, and was totally correct to be brought to my attention.

However, the lady also subjected me to a rant about how French children would NEVER pick things up in a shop, they are taught "limits", whereas all summer she has had English, German etc children visiting and breaking things and being given "no limits" by their parents. Complained we had left the place a mess and her husband had to tidy behind us, because the teddies were placed back in the basket but not sat upright as previously displayed (I had set the chairs back carefully but admittedly been distracted from checking the basket).

I pushed back (calmly!) on her generalised critique of my parenting, and she said she has just lost patience after a summer full of similar experiences and essentially admitted this lecture wasn't personal. Still, it was pretty heavy handed to give in public in front of my children and other customers.

To be clear I know I made an error. We had been in a few quite breakable shops already which required heavy parenting, and I guess I saw an opportunity for a quick relief for us all. Normally I would supervise my children looking at anything handmade, so it was a lax moment, but I did think they were just wool and stuffing and wouldn't suffer at all from light playing. Also, typically I wouldn't take my children into these kind of shops. They have never broken anything in a shop before!

I just wonder how humbled I should be. Did I just catch this lady on a really bad day? Was she a bit racist? Are french children really that obedient all the time? Should I strike it off as a bad day and move on without too much thought, or do I take the criticism on board more strongly and accept I should be stricter with things like this and re-evaluate my parenting?! Do we really have much lower standards in the UK?

It's a shame, we've had a lovely holiday but now I feel like we're not that welcome here and have been judged/looked down on in general. Do we really have a terrible reputation in France?

It sounds as though it wasn't an appropriate shop to be touching things and the owner was just really stressed about damages. The rabbits sound very delicate for a children's toy so they shouldn't really have been sitting down playing with them. Equally, if you'd bought them it sounds as though they'd have soon been broken anyway. She could have had a sign up about not touching.
However, there's so point dwelling on it any more and reactions in shops around the world aren't always what you're used to. I got thrown out of a shop for no real reason once on holiday - the main explanation was that I wasn't buying anything. Which I might have done, if I'd even had a chance to look at anything in the first place.

I’d never let DD do what you let yours do. If they can’t not touch they don’t go in. I have to remind her to look with her eyes not her hands, and if she wants to look at something to tell me and I will show it to her.

I do let her look at the toys on the front of the kids magazines and have a quick flick through, maybe a minute or two, in the local shop. But she is then told you only get to read it if you buy it and to move along (the shop staff always say it’s fine and kids welcome to sit and flick through, but this is the most she is allowed to do, and we do buy one periodically).

There is a tendency to criticise British in mainland Europe.

Bit you should not let your kids touch things in a store. I guess you won’t now after this incident.

French and English are the same race i.e. white.

WTF? The kids picked up and held the teddies, twisting their ears, probably with dirty and sticky fingers, and you think the shopkeeper is BU?? They are HER property until you hand over the cash. She's entitled to expect you to pay for damage. And yes, many British kids are given few boundaries...my many years as a teacher have proved that to me.

Another thing me and my friends noticed when on a school trip in France, the French teen boys/young men were a lot lot more leery/inappropriate/misogynistic compared to British boys

Yes, my daughter aupaired in both countries. Totally different cultures. French kids are told no, gentle spank on the bottom happens abd so on

😁Yes, not many small children buy in to the concept of ‘sharing’

whether she stereotyped you or not, your children broke something in a shop, and the owner had to run after you because you didn’t notice. That’s the bit to think about. I’m not sure what you want people to say? Ignore her, she was over the top, it’s a French/ English thing, French children can behave badly too, etc etc. Does any of that matter??

FWIW the shopkeeper was not being racist.

I don’t think children with their relative lack of dexterity and often grubby hands should touch soft toys which other people will be buying, let alone twist them about!

If I’d been the shopkeeper, I would have wanted payment for the fact they’d been damaged!

Oh and French and English are not the same race; nor are Scots and English.

In some ways yes, in other ways no. I am also speaking as neither French nor British but as someone who observed both.

And if we are talking of stereotypes. Why French women are feistier ( according to French influencers and also confirmed by my own experience) than British if they were all parented better?

She was by singling out British and German nationalities. And a lot of ( not all) French people’s attitude is like they are superior to British.

Nothing to do with race just lax parenting.

Oh please. Racism is no longer limited to race. Also it’s a known fact French behave like they are better than British so why do you think there was no bias in her comments?

I've taught my 6 year old you look with eyes not hands. You were wrong to allow them to touch anything you weren't buying. The shopkeeper maybe have been too general but she was right in your case

The usual! I can guarantee that were I to make a negative comment about all the children of an Asian country then I would be accused of being 'racist'.

Honestly, I think English people in general are pretty rude in France in terms of a) a lot not making even a basic attempt to speak French and b) not observing French social norms around politeness, which absolutely include not letting your kids pick stuff up in shops (for which there is no need at all).

The Act permits nationality to be included within the protected characteristic of race. It does not mean nationality is a race in itself.

Xenophobia is a thing. Why not use it? And given the incident happened in France, where nationality is not classed within the race protected characteristic under EU laws, the lady was not racist.

The French have a saying for that: on touche avec les yeux! We touch with our eyes. Meaning we cannot touch with our hands even if we really really want to, we can only look.
i have no encountered this “concept” in the UK. Different culture, thats all. It doesnt mean that one is better than the other.

Race is not the same as skin colour. In any case, there is no official definition of race.

Then you are using the word incorrectly, Xenophobic is the word you want, not racist.

"The Act permits nationality to be included within the protected characteristic of race. It does not mean nationality is a race in itself."

The Act doesn't define race at all, does it?
Does any law in France? I doubt it.

parents just don't say no to their kids any more.

thats not what she said or implied.

Remember that most shops in France are privately owned. You walk into a shop and often the person behind the counter is the owner. In England, it's likely to be a bored 20-something on minimum wage. Therefore, if you walk into a shop in France, you always say 'Bonjour madame/monsieur' and you always say 'au revoir' when you leave. Given that basis, if your children walked into a shop and the owner was there and they started picking things up, can you understand why she was pissed off? I would have been too.

Well the lack of parenting in your story kind of supports her view does it not?