Am I right to punish my toddler if he’s weeing on things on purpose?

[mam1998]

My toddler is four the start of November. He’s fully toilet trained however lately he has been weeing on purpose and finds it funny. Taking him to bed tonight he he weed all over his bed before putting his nighttime pull up on. She we’ve taken away his toys and sat him on the naughty step. We have started punishing him for weeing and I don’t know if we’re right in doing this? As I know people say don’t tell them off for weeing but I’m 99% sure he’s doing it on purpose and if that’s the case do we enforce punishment?

Honestly there are some wet namby pamby parents on here( I'm a mother and grandmother of children of both sexes).

If my son( a very happy, successful well-adjusted married man with no issues at all, before people inevitably tell me I must have done him irreparable mental harm) had deliberately pissed on doors, beds and the settee he certainly would have been shouted at, told in no uncertain terms it was extremely naughty and punished by having toys taken away, no story etc.

It's a totally different scenario to having the occasional accident at night.

I also wonder if it's a being indulgent to boys thing, I suspect if a girl had been deliberately pissing on the settee and other places people wouldn't be suggesting collecting marbles for not doing it or suggesting she peed on ping pong balls.

Why are you trying to make other parents feel bad when you must know it’s perfectly normal to still be wearing pull ups to bed at 4. He’s not even 4 yet if you’d read it properly.

@Millionsofmonkeysi received that advice from an older experienced health visitor years ago, and it worked. Don’t fight with a toddler. You never win.

@schmalex I don’t know one who wasn’t. Other than one with a bladder issue.

@Buxusmortus It’s a boy thing. It’s why men piss in public and do not even hide behind a hedge. No one ever says no. Not acceptable. Boys are indulged. I agree if this was a girl there would be a different view taken. It would be a very firm response from me and I would not be prepared to have expensive furniture ruined by a 4 year old thinking it’s fun. What next? Dogs don’t piss on their own beds but we think a child can?

@TizerorFizz well I'm sure your anecdotal experience is more valid than a doctor's. Night time continence (i.e. ability to wake for a wee when they're asleep) is a completely different thing to daytime potty training.

Anyway, that's not really what's being discussed here.

@schmalex Doctors tend to see the few dc where there are issues. He’s not waking in the night. Op says he’s dry. He’s weeing deliberately on furniture! That’s very very different. He needs to understand what he cannot do and this is one of those things. For some reason he thinks fouling his own space is funny. It’s nothing to do with potty training. It’s more to do with understanding what you cannot do snd actually pleasuring your mum. Some dc don’t have empathy with parents and op needs to work on this with him,

Theres too many excuses made for poor boy behaviour and we end up with too many poorly behaved men who think everything is a laugh and don’t care about others as long as they are doing what they want. It needs to stop.

I'm not advocating fighting with a toddler. I am advocating telling him that peeing on the bed or up a door is not allowed and is silly behaviour, and as a result of that silly behaviour, and because you now have to spend time changing a bed, he will have no story.

Laying down a boundary is sometimes important.

I am an older experienced child psychologist so I am pulling rank, lol

Maybe it's worth reminding people that there are different parenting types - authoritarian, authoritative, permissive, and uninvolved.

I am advocating authoritative parenting. Clear rules and expectations and limits, but in the context of a warm and loving relationship.

I am not a parent, or a child psychologist, but I have a thought about its being a boy thing. Not actually related to the previous poster who connected it to adult men pissing recklessly. (At my last home there used to be men who had come from the pub next door doing it up our drive.) He is learning that there is something he does which he can control, and finds that funny. Like lifting eyebrows or wiggling ears, but with consequences he hasn't thought about.
When I was teaching there was a rash of boys peeing up the toilet wall. It wasn't to be naughty, to deliberately cause trouble, it was to see how high they could go. (It wasn't helped by the male governors having done the toilets on the cheap without tiling the walls, so it soaked in and smelled.) Girls are not equipped to have this attitude. Boys need to learn that their amusing actions have consequences, and they need to be immediately related to what they've done, so I think those posters advocating involvement with cleaning up and no story, or if in the daytime, no trip to the park, are probably on the right track. (Somebody should have done it with Boris, who still thinks spaffing up a wall is funny.)
(I had an elderly lady stay in my house, and we didn't get to control her incontinence. RSPCA Wee-Away was useful, but I had to get rid of my favourite recliner chair when she went. Pee and electricity don't mix. Maybe telling him that if he uses wrong furniture to pee on, you'll have to get rid of it. Or may be not, if he does have a malicious streak.)

@Treaclewell This attitude towards boys doesn’t help them become responsible men or teens though. Should OP replace her sofa? I’d be very annoyed with any 4 year old doing this and I agree with the parenting chart below. It’s so important to set the standard required and stick to it.

Interesting that governors, who deal with strategic planning, planned the walls in the loos. Weak head I would say and poor building spec.

Good for you.

Please read my earlier post on the 1980s advice.

@allthemiddlechildrenoftheworld erm are you actually okay? I didn’t realize you spoke on behalf of all children of your generation… like I said previously nighttime bed wetting is hormonal and can be caused for a number of reasons. Hence why you still have fully grown older children who suffer with bed wetting do they have lazy parents too??? What a ridiculous thing to say. Having nights here and there wetting the bed is more than normal at this age.

Im in a generation of mothers who are expected to work full time which I do in a system not designed to support mothers but still be expected to mother full time with little childcare. I’m not lazy thank you.

@mam1998 You have toilet trained trained he accepted sense though, but this behaviour isn’t standard toilet training is t? It’s a misunderstanding of what acceptable behaviour is around weeing and could be very expensive for you if it’s not stopped. Who can sit on your sofa if it’s got wee on it? Why is it a boy does this? It’s not you being lazy but he needs very firm parenting. I don’t see how rewards will work or improvement could take forever! You need a quick resolution!

He's just realised he's got his very own water pistol in his pants! I'd get him a proper water pistol to play outside with and firmly tell him that wee goes in the toilet and if it goes anywhere else then he will need to be cleaning it up with you.

Shouting and taking away toys is just unnecessary - teachers control 30 4 year old kids without yelling and taking away toys. There are natural consequences that fit much better here and screaming at kids to get them to do what you say is best left in the old days.

I would also say he's probably playing up to try and get more of your attention, this is even more likely as you're working full time. So I would try to give him more time of an evening and have a good bedtime routine which includes a story and some calming nursery rhymes/songs in bed. That way getting into bed can be a fun thing rather than something he tries to put off.

Exactly this. Boys (especially) need to learn that the consequences of making a mess are that you have to clean it up afterwards.

Don't be silly. how could you possibly know they were all dry at night at 3? With your attitude I doubt anyone would have admitted that theirs weren't! My 50 year old cousin was still wetting the bed at 13 - I can absolutely assure you it wasn't because her parents were lazy. There is literally no way to make a child be able to hold their wee in at night if the hormone vasopressin hasn't kicked in enough.

Honestly there are so many ignorant people around who are still living in the 1970's.

My 3 year old has started toilet training almost a year ago. She still has a handful of accidents a month. But the other day she pooed in her pants, apparently because she wanted different pants. And later that day peed in them because she wanted a shower...

Has had a couple of pee accidents most weeks for months, but virtually no poo accidents since week 1. However, now she is doing lots of poos in pants and finding it funny or not even telling me. Disgusting child

DS went through a phase of breaking his glasses on purpose at around age 4/5 (he has autism and also suspected ADHD). He's also weed on things at few times although generally it was the bathroom floor or the bath mat. What worked with the glasses was saying you will lose a whole day of screen time if you do this again. He was doing it on a weekly basis before then and I tried all the gentle/logical approaches. Since threatening to remove screen time it hasn't happened again.

You clean it up with as little fuss as possible and tell him firmly that the toilet is the only place he can wee. If he's doing it to delay bedtime then you might find there isn't time for stories that night because you had to take time to change the bed.
Just as a side note, do you let him wee outside? I mean against a tree that kind of thing? It's just it can backfire for some little boys and they start exploring where they can wee just for fun.

At close to 4 he’s not a toddler. He’s a little boy who knows he’s being naughty and yes, should be punished accordingly.

@Anna467 It is well known that more and more dc starting school are not potty trained. Not quite sure why you don’t know this because it’s been widely reported by teaching unions and others monitoring the development of dc. It’s been a follow on from Covid where the usual norms have slipped. There certainly is a difference from even 30 years ago when not having a dry dc at 4-5 was unusual. I know as I was an education officer back then with a budget to employ TAs to help with such dc in YR. We had very few cases. There’s definitely been a change as there has been in child behaviour in other ways.

Teachers, of course, don’t normally have a DS weeing in the sandpit or in the reading corner for fun and laughing. I’d quite like to know what they would do if they did!? I suspect a swift meeting with the parents.

Parents must do all they can to nip this type of thing in the bud and at times a clear instruction that “no means no” is important. He probably won’t give a fig about clearing up! He doesn’t see wee as wrong! It’s actually a bit sad that he cannot see this isn't what dc do and doesn’t care about his bed. Getting him to care about his bed, his sofa and his mum would be good.

What is your contribution to this thread? Is this it? Is this your contribution?

Your child has only existed on the planet for 3 years and is going through a phase that you as the adult need to parent her through. Calling her a “disgusting child” does not make her one. It does, however, make you a disgusting human being.

I remember my mother telling me the story of one of her cousins, who at around the same age, started weeing in inappropriate places; apparently, nothing else worked to stop him, eventually, at the end of her tether ( no washing machines in those days) she picked him up and put him under the cold tap every time he did it. It only took about 3 times, but it stopped him.
I am not suggesting you do this, but thought it might give you a smile.

@Somehowgirl Oh do get off your high horse. As parents we can use black humour if we wish. Dc are not all angels and at times they can be pretty awful. Between ourselves we are allowed to say a habit is disgusting! It’s often been said in jest “disgusting child!!”. How ridiculously soft we have become. Why, as parents, do we have to suck everything up that dc do and find nice words to describe it? Parents are allowed to find things disgusting! It’s changing the behaviour that matters. Not expressing your view on a social media site! Yes, children can be dusgusting at times as can those on high horses.

Is that what @SillyNavySnailis doing? Using black humour? Do you know her?

Children do gross things. If you wish to call them a “disgusting child” then crack on.

At 4, he isn't a little toddler anymore, he knows well and good that it's naughty and I'd absolutely be introducing consequences.

As a previous poster said, make him clean it up. Any toys weed on have to be washed, if not washable, throw them away and do not replace.

Make him strip sheets and take to the washing machine and help you put new ones on.

Unfortunately, all this having to be done means there is no time left for a story tonight.

TV time in the morning has to be spent hanging up the wet washing from the night before.

Isn't it a shame that his weeing everywhere has taken up all his fun/chill time. Hope it doesn't happen again tonight etc.