Parenting across two countries

[Linzie79]

My 12-year-old daughter and I live in the UK and her dad lives in Spain. Over the last couple of years especially she's said how much she hates England and prefers Spain. I've always been a single mum but I've made a real effort to take her to Spain to see her dad and make sure she spends time with both sides of the family. Over the last couple of months our relationship has become so strained and she says she wants to live with her dad. The thought of not being a presencial parent, there to support her through puberty and the challenges of life breaks my heart, but I worry that she is going to resent me if she stays here. She has more family in Spain and really just me here. I feel like I should let her go for her own mental health because right now she just thinks I'm a terrible parent and she would be happier there. Besides losing her, I worry about her education and once she goes there, there is really no coming back as it would disrupt her studies too much. I feel like I have to let her go so I can still maintain some kind of relationship with her and maybe when she's older she'll come back to me in terms of closeness. I don't think she likes my personality and with me going through perimenopause she probably picks up on my changing moods. Any advice or anyone in a similar situation?

This is a man who thought it was acceptable to live in a different country from his child. That agony you feel over the idea of being separated from your child, why didn’t that stop him from being separated from her? You should not be entertaining this move. He is not a good parent.

your daughter is 12. Almost all daughters hate their mothers at this age. They come back eventually. It’s a biological imperative that allows them to be able to separate psychologically to be able to move to another household or community. If we didn’t detach a bit as a species, we wouldn’t be able to mix enough genetically.

I think a trial is important. We've all been 12 and thought something sounded like a great idea and then when reality hits it is awful. So it might be that after a week of her dad at work she regrets it but if you've said its a permanent move then she may not feel able to change her mind. But telling her she is welcome home whenever she wants will make it easier if she realises that she's not happy there. 12 year olds are allowed to fail but for us parents, we need to accept that and help them to sort the situation. By Christmad she might be home thinking you're the best parent ever now she has a comparison

My further thoughts on this are

• I was also wondering how much of it falls within normal teen behaviour. Although neither of mine expressed a wish to live with their other parent, I have been called all sorts. I don’t think I would have expected either of them to understand the pressures on my life and the sacrifices and I would not be putting that on them. But I would be saying that some of the language described is not acceptable or fair and asking for it to be stopped. I tend to say if you would not say it to your father or your teachers, do not say it to me, I am not worth less respect. You can listen to what your Dd is saying whilst still expecting it to be said politely.
• What is your DD’s friendship circle like and how is she doing at school? Are there any issues there she is trying to get away from?
• i thought it was positive that you said her grandmother would be sad for her not to have her mum around. This says to me that the grandparents are not trying to take over the parenting from you.
• I then wondered about her passport, who would hold this (her dad obviously) and whether and how any disagreements between you and her dad are resolved. By which I mean, if your Dd wanted to return after three months, would he honour her wishes?
• I think you said that you are visiting later in the summer and will discuss this with her dad then. This is sensible, and to be honest, until then, I would simply say to Dd that is what you will do. You really do need to speak to her dad and work out whether you are on the same page and what he thinks about this. Ideally, you work together but it sounds like he has left all the heavy lifting to you and now he might be expected to step up. Even if he leaves some of the care to his mother, he won’t be able to carry on his single life. Does she know children her own age in Spain?

I think I would then set this aside until you have had the conversation with her dad and see how things settle. Where I live, a court would take a 12 year old’s wishes into consideration, and therefore I would do this too. You do need to make clear to your DD what her legal position is and check this yourself via a vis the Hague Convention if Spain becomes her main residence. She wishes to be trusted as an autonomous person, she needs to know where the law places her. Trust her with the information and discuss as openly as possible. Name calling etc from her doesn’t fit in this scenario so I would be closing that down if she expects you to entertain what she is suggesting and telling her that treating you with respect to discuss things is the only way forward.

Yes and respect your own time. The other way of looking at it is that her dad is due to do some parenting. I sound harsh with this but I oh so much get the exhaustion you describe.

The education system in Spain is excellent. They will accommodate her being bilingual. My nieces are actually trilingual because their school teachers in Catalan.

@Linzie79 this with bells on.

Youth unemployment in Spain is very high. Also I wouldn’t take her to Spain. I’d make her dad come over. She needs to know that you’ve facilitated this father - daughter relationship not him.

If dad is so interested in raising her he can start by visiting her.

And as for everyone else saying they’d let her go. Like he’ll they would. She needs firm boundaries and dad can come to her from now on. She needs to see how unbothered he is about contact if left to his own devices.

Good luck op in navigating this.

I would let her go. If she doesn't like it, she can come back. In the meantime, try to make friends because one day she will be an adult and you'll be on your own.

Are you funding the 6 weeks of Spanish holidays each year just so she can see her dad and his family? Or is her dad paying? I wouldn’t let her go. She’s only 12 and you’d hardly ever see her because she’ll be raised by her paternal grandparents.

Why not let her go there to study for a year? But first check if she can continue her studies there, as her all education has been in English and now will be Spanish. Or agree for her to go there only if she studies in a British school? So she can always come back to the UK if she doesn't like it.

Sounds to me like all you have is your daughter. Don’t let her go and live with a father who has never made the effort to come here and visit her. Spain has always been a holiday to her. If it gets to point you really need to let her go, don’t be far behind her. She’s 12, she will need her mum.

Let her go. Its what she wants to do. Think of her.

She will thank you later x

Yeah let her go and tell her to see how she likes it for a year.

She may want to come back after a year. Just let her go and see for herself.

I would honestly let her go, she’s got a few years to try and come back if she hates it before her starting GCSEs.

Shes old enough to fly back on her own to come for holidays and to visit you.

I think a trial period sounds sensible. If you do decide on that, then you need to be very explicit with her that it is not your wish, and that if she changes her mind she can come back and nothing will have changed between you. That you love her. That you don’t want her to go because you’ll miss her terribly, but you understand that she wants to try and you don’t begrudge it (even if you do). If you blithely say “oh yes go on then darling” then being in the throes of puberty she may take this as an outright rejection even though it isn’t.

I know that's a useless thing to say at this point but why the hell did him get away with not visiting his daughter? You propped him and didn't let your DD see that her dad is a failure.

You covered for him, did all the hard work and now you're surprised that a 12 year old child thinks her dad is amazing? Of course he seems amazing, you did all the supporting work for him to shine!

I don't know what I would do, because it's very easy to step up and parent when they are older and easier, and I would be very resentful. Perhaps you can let her go, agree it will be a year, and during this year focus on yourself, get hobbies, have fun, so you feel you're getting something good for yourself as well.

Sorry, this is a lot of twaddle.

I live in Spain. Yes there is unemployment but our universities are perfectly good thank you and have the advantage that you don't leave saddled with ridiculous debt because we still have fairly priced universities.

There is absolutely no reason to believe that OP's daughter would be "saddled with minimum wage jobs for life" her father is a teacher. Her education would not be ruined at all, it would be different.

I am currently doing a law degree in Spain. I have friends who are lawyers, notaries, accountants....just like in the UK such roles exist. None of them are scrabbling by on minimum wage.

Separately, Spain has a far superior health system than the NHS so if OPs daughter has children in the future then her care will be better. She will also have access to publicly funded nursery school should she wish to return to work.

Your post reeks of British arrogance and ignorance of Spanish society.

OP to be honest if I were you I would let her go and I would go with her.

Of course once she has been there for 6 months with your consent Spanish jurisdiction will apply to any custody disagreement and 50/50 is the default here, particularly of children of your daughter's age.

I expect that if she came here she would want to stay and her wanting to return to the UK would be very unlikely.

An aspect to consider is that the Spanish educational system isn't generally regarded as being as good as the UK system. Of course, your daughter won't care about that, but her education will affect the rest of her life.

I have friends, a mixed Spanish / British couple who moved back to Spain after living in the UK for a while with 4 children. Although the children were happy to be back in Spain, they all spoke scathingly of the level of education there and wished they'd been allowed to finish school in the UK.

I know in the UK we're very down on our schools, but internationally, they're regarded pretty well. There is a reasons GCSEs are the standard in all subjects, for a huge number of countries.

Definitely agree with the previous poster about their health care system though. The NHS is on its knees, whereas the Spanish system offers a lot more.

"The GCSE's are standard in all subjects, in a huge number of countries. "

Eh no. They are not.

Do you think maybe you are a bit biased and you are looking at the UK education system through rose tinted glasses.

I used to live in Spain. Everyone I met was extremely well educated. Most people had Masters degrees.

I work for an international exam company which offers GCSEs. Many, many countries around the world offer GCSEs, O Levels, A Levels. I examine GCSEs for 6 countries and am picking up another one in October. So I'm afraid, due to my work, I know this is a fact. Also having worked in a Spanish school, that offered GCSEs.

Of course there will be highly educated people all over the world. No one is denying that. But the UK system is a highly rated educational system. UK trained teachers are aspirational for many countries and command huge salaries. I have Spanish friends from when I lived there and the majority of them send their children to private international schools offering the British system or the International Baccalaureate.

Thanks so much for all your comments and advice. There is a lot for me to think about. I spent a decade in Spain so I know the pros and cons to both countries and cultures. Its an impossible situation; I can only do what is right for now with a close eye to the future

Well I can tell you that I went to school in an EU country, and absolutely nobody did GCSE's there. We had our own system.

Most countries in the EU have their own educational system.

Yes, of course there are international schools in many countries that offer GCSE's.

That is a very different statement from your first statement, where you wrote that

"GCSEs are the STANDARD in all subjects, in a huge number of countries".

No, GCSE's are not the standard.

Is there any possibility of her going for a half term
Keeping her school place open in case it doesn’t work? Enrolling her in Spanish school and seeing if she copes. Talk to her school for starters, many do support short stays overseas if in school

🙄🙄🙄You're splitting hairs. Every country has their own educational system. Of course. My point is that there are a vast amount of countries around the world, where schools both private and public, offer British or International Baccalaureate qualifications.

There is a reason for this. If they were no better than the local standard, they would not be as popular as they are, and frankly, I'd have no job if they weren't very valued.

You can disapprove. You can point out more people don't do them (of course) than do. I have friends with children in Singaporean, Indonesian and German public schools who sit GCSEs and then go on to do A Levels or IB. There is a big list of other countries who offer the same.

She might make her way back to me when she's a young adult and understands things more.

She won’t though. She will build a life in Spain and after she reaches adulthood and visitation no longer applies, you’ll see her once a year.

You have to fight for the things you care about in life. Passively rolling over and saying she doesn’t like you is just a fast track to losing her.

The daughter has a say in her own life too.

She criticises you right now because she’s unhappy that her father and grandmother are in Spain and she blames you for this. Your life in the U.K. doesn’t sound wildly exciting with few friends and she might find it claustrophobic and pressurised, so I can see why Spain looks more appealing. However, paradoxically, if you let her move without a squeak it will confirm her perspective that don’t care about her and are a “terrible parent”.