Why is my dd so emotionally stunted?

[KTNoo]

dd1 (7 next month) has always been high maintenance. Never played well on her own, always wanting attention, gets into big tangles over everything, you know the type.

She's extremely academic and an obsessive rule follower so school in the learning sense has never been a problem. Socially, however (at school and home and everywhere really) she is just so DIFFICULT. She tries to play with younger brother and sister but goes totally over the top, almost hysterical. It's like she doesn't know how to just play and enjoy, and has some rule system going in her head all the time. Honestly, I think she would have done better in Victorian times when you just said what was expected of you rather than what you actually felt.

I was brought up in a very stiff upper lip, keep up the appearance kind of way, and I have made a lot of effort to be open and encourage expression of emotion with my dcs. So why does she find it so difficult? My other 2 have no problem. She's also incredibly black and white about everything and finds imaginative/creative things hard. I have tried the "How to talk so kids will listen" approach to try to get her to problem solve a bit more, but she just gets annoyed with me and says "But you're not telling me what I need to do!"

Does anyone else have a child like this? How can I help her?

What do her teachers think? obviusly I havent seen her but from what you have said I would be concerned about aspergers. But it could just be her personality and a diificulty in social situations

I'm going to recommend a book to you, it has a chapter about how to help children like this, it gives strategies and examples to help the child look at their behaviour from another perspective. My ds was slightly similar, he's lovely now. The books called the Unwritten Rules of Friendship. It's about £8 from Amazon.

dylanthecat, I honestly don't think she has aspergers. I would have sought help much earlier if I suspected that. It's more that she just can't seem to be herself, like she's awkward in her own skin. Maybe she's just a bit geeky. Fair enough I suppose. She does have friends but complains that they just want to walk around in the playground gossiping! She would rather read her encyclopaedia.

I just worry that it's something I've done I suppose. I know she must pick up vibes from me as I do get irritated by her behaviour. I also see aspects of my own personality in her but I had always assumed these were down to my retentive upbringing!

Avenanap, thanks for the recommendation. What do you think helped your ds to change?

well like i said it was only on the basis of what you had said and we have had parents who think ASD doesnt affect girls

If its her personality could she not join a group she is intrested in to meet children with the same intrests?

Yes she does do football which she enjoys (structure and rules!) although we often have a scene if her team loses or she feels she hasn't played well enough. It's so wearing.

She gets so anxious about everything and can't seem to relax. To me the tings she gets all wound-up about seem trivial but I know they are not to her. For example, yesterday we were at a theme park with the gp's (staying with them as school hols). She said she didn't want to go on the carousel so ds went on without her. For some reason (maybe she was wishing she'd gone on too but would never say that openly or admit to it if I suggested it) she then yelled in a horrible shrill fake voice "that's a rubbish ride to choose!" over and over again at ds. Is that not a bit strange? It's so hard not to get annoyed with her as it feels like she's spoiling things with her weird behaviour.

He couldn't see that others were reacting in a negative way towards him because of the things he did, nor could he see when he had crossed the line. The book helped him, we did some role play etc.

KTNoo

I think maybe you have identified part of the issue when you talk about your own reaction to her behaviour.

By no means I am saying you create her behaviour but I think it's really easy to get into a kind of vicious circle of winding up and irritation with kids. My dd is much younger than yours but can also be very anxious in the way you describe. I have to make a conscious effort not to let it 'get to me' and to show her how to relax and have fun (whilst giving her the support she needs). She is sooo much better when I do this!

Could you invite some of her school friends round and do something really fun together?

Role play is a possibility, if I could get her to do it - I can imagine her just getting all silly because she felt self-conscious.

I don't understand exectly what's going on with her. She comes across all confident and bossy but surely she must be feeling insecure or she wouldn't act so strange?

I agree with avenanap that role play might help to develop interpersonal her skills and see social situations more clearly. Could you try to get her intrested in something that doesnt involve rules as such like brownies (or do they have to be nine) but where they do a range of activitys that might intrest her? That involves more interacting than football so she would have to practice her social skills

What do school say KTNoo?
Has she been assessed or referred for anything - not Aspergers necessarily, but you say she is academically very able. Could she be gifted academically but struggling socially, which is often one of the indicators for "true" giftedness?
I will say one thing though - I know one child very like your dd from the sound of it, and he has made great strides socially during Year 4 at school.
Your dd is still pretty young (for the school year she is in too) and she may well hit her stride around 8-9, which is when children become far better at realising what parts of their behaviour are having a negative effective on friendships...and managing to change themselves.

she sounds like a not hugely untypical geeky eldest child dd to me, tbh. there was a thread a while back and loads of us either were or had highly-strung, intelligent eldests.

She may be too young for Brownies but do they have Rainbow Guides locally?
Things a rule-conscious child might also enjoy include sudoku, chess, even a martial art.

sorry to interrupt but - avenap, weren't you going to change your name?

we came up with some fine suggestions if I remember correctly

Oh yes indeed Aitch sigh. Luckily ds and I sing from the same child brainiac hymn sheet, so to speak...but I didn't have the sort of upbringing KTNoo describes, so it's not a flash point in our house

It's just who she is - maybe you could try accepting her as an individual and she might open up a little more to you, if she wanted to - but surely its about who she is not who you or other siblings are. Surely you can make her feel accepted even if she is differnet from you?

Harpomarx, I agree that I haven't always handled her well. I think we are quite similar and she winds me up, much more so than ds who is much more classically naughty but just wears his heart on his sleeve. And dh, who is more like ds, can often humour her out of a mood.

I sometimes think she just wants to do the right thing but doesn't know what that is. I noticed lately that when she says or does something inappropriate I deliberately don't react and just smile at her but she says "What?" in a horribly fake voice as if she's just trying to get a reaction from me.

She particularly enjoys adult attention, and one thing I find difficult to ignore is when she actually corners another adult and gives them some long monologue. On occasion they have actually been looking pleadingly at me to rescue them!

How do you get your dd to relax and go with the flow a bit more, harpomarx?

re the friends thing, we do have kids over regularly, and she wants a sleepover for her birthday - God help us!

i often wonder how having your world turned upside-down with the advent of a new sibling could possibly not affect a child and make them crave rules and regs.

gosh, kt, with the absolute best will in the world it doesn't sound as if you like her v much...

as a former very socially awkward child....

make her feel loved and accepted as she is, that will help reduce her anxiety. encourage interests that will suit her. then once you are both in a better place, gently encourage more appropriate social behaviour - if she is very "rules oriented" then a book such as Avenap has mentioned may be surprisingly well received.

I have to say I think "emotionally stunted" is really not a very nice description, and nothing you have posted actually suggests that anyway!

Recognise that 'I think we are quite similar and she winds me up' feeling, KTNoo. That's my mum, me, and dd!

I guess there are parts of your personality that you are not quite happy with and you are upset when you see them emerge in your dd 'cos you have tried really hard to bring her up differently to the way you were brought up? Like it took having a child for me to realise that I'm still quite a shy person (was a shy child) despite my confident exterior.

As I said, my dd is much younger than yours but I recognise that she doesn't want attention focused on her till she's ready and also needs a lot of support. So, I've given up expecting her to 'be like other kids' and just support her (with cuddles or whatever) until she is ready to join in.

The main thing for me is to provide a role model of how to behave with other people - relaxed, happy etc. That goes for her friends as well as other adults. I try to minimise her more extreme reactions by comforting her until she calms down.

Sounds like typical eldest child syndrome! I was definitely a bit like this when I was a kid, and not that much of a girly girl which made it a bit harder to make friends. My poor parents tried to develop my creative/social/sporty side with various activities where I was lacking - but this didn't really work as it just made me unconfident and so I overcompensated on the bossiness / perfectionist front! I did enjoy swimming though and really benefited from this, so I'd say sport is excellent if she enjoys it.

So maybe you should boost her confidence by playing to her strengths. Once she is more confident she may be more willing to take risks developing the more latent aspects of her personality.

I agree she might enjoy Brownies - I did. It can be a welcome break from being the eldest child as it can be very nurturing and supportive.

Or maybe music/kids orchestra type activities too.

I am still not much of a girly girl, and am still a bit of a bossyboots/ perfectionist, but I chose a career where these are advantages. Society can be very harsh on little girls who do not fulfil the stereotype of sweet-natured, docile, pretty little angels. But these attributes can be rather a disadvantage in the modern adult world.

I was very much this child.
I loved structure and rules had my head in a book was very different to my peers. I also always seemed very bossy and confident but was and atill am extremely shy. It was just the way I was built.
As a child I remember finding role play and imaginitive games difficult as for some reason I felt very self concious doing them. I am not sure anymore why in all honesty. My parents were great parents really but I did feel mocked at times, my dad would laugh if I did something silly and I felt laughed AT he never meant it cruelly but it did hurt and I have wondered if that had anything to do with it.
I grew up with few friends but they were good friends and some of them I am still in touch with now. I was never particulary lonely either.

I think what monkeytrousers says is very very true just accept her how she is, I feel my mum although did/does love me very much never really understood me and never really tried to and I noticed and felt it.

As I grew up probably by the time I went to secondary school I did blossom a bit, made some new friends and came out of myself a bit and found a bit of inner confidence.
Inside there is a bit of me that is still that awkward geeky kid but age has made me care less about what other people think and have naturally found that confidence.

Thanks for all the suggestions.

I do think I can get into a negative rut sometimes. I am trying to accept who she is and not compare her. She is a lovely girl, I just wish she could accept herself a bit more then she would be free from all the pressure she puts on herself to be the best at everything. It takes some of us a lifetime I guess!

DNMW, yes she is still very young. I don't know if she's gifted. Her reading was recently assessed at age 12. School are happy with her, but do say she's very black and white and can get frustrated with the other children if they don't live up to her high standards!

Tomorrow we're going out for lunch just the 2 of us, as we have gps to babysit the other 2 this week. I realise that a lot of the time I'm busy with the younger ones and not always able to give her the time she needs.

Re brownies etc, it's difficult as we don't live in UK.