Why is my dd so emotionally stunted?

[KTNoo]

dd1 (7 next month) has always been high maintenance. Never played well on her own, always wanting attention, gets into big tangles over everything, you know the type.

She's extremely academic and an obsessive rule follower so school in the learning sense has never been a problem. Socially, however (at school and home and everywhere really) she is just so DIFFICULT. She tries to play with younger brother and sister but goes totally over the top, almost hysterical. It's like she doesn't know how to just play and enjoy, and has some rule system going in her head all the time. Honestly, I think she would have done better in Victorian times when you just said what was expected of you rather than what you actually felt.

I was brought up in a very stiff upper lip, keep up the appearance kind of way, and I have made a lot of effort to be open and encourage expression of emotion with my dcs. So why does she find it so difficult? My other 2 have no problem. She's also incredibly black and white about everything and finds imaginative/creative things hard. I have tried the "How to talk so kids will listen" approach to try to get her to problem solve a bit more, but she just gets annoyed with me and says "But you're not telling me what I need to do!"

Does anyone else have a child like this? How can I help her?

But there's no need to spend extra cash just for the sake of if it surely? I see your point, but it wasn't up to me by then anyway as grandad was in the middle of paying! But I do find it hard to do the "treat them all fairly but not necessarily the same" thing, probably because I'm an only child and I have 3!

i think that's a very idealistic adult view, tbh, and perhaps your only childness is influencing that.

dh is an only child, and i talk about making sure everyone had the same amount of food etc or that in a selection pack of crisps how we had to take it in turns to get first pick (last pick at some stage getting stuck with ready salted) and his eyes glaze over. his mum went to the cash and carry and got the big box of salt and vinegar, you see. only children get what they want, because there's no point in not getting it, iykwim? bigger families have to have systems in place for the little unfairnesses of life, and that's largely by being seen to be fair across the piece. i hope you see what i mean. i'd definitely 100% have given them the same amount of money, and if there was left-over then it would go in a piggy bank. but then i'm the eldest of four.

basically, you have to out-think grandad, he's an old man and even if he had more than one child it would have been his wife in charge of the kids. for a child who likes pattern NOT to have pointed this dreadful inequity out to her wee brother would have been unthinkable.

Hmm...I will have to think about this fairness stuff. dh (one of 4) is always telling me about all the systems they had in place, e.g. the one who cuts the cake into slices is not the first one to choose, and the complicated hierarchy they had for who got to sit in the front of the car etc etc. My only childhood could not have been more different - no real rules apart from always be nice and polite and smile and never say anything negative no matter how you're feeling inside!

it is really hilarious, i think. we're all well into our thirties and we still keep an eye on what everyone else has. my mum used to serve up our meals and any roast potato inequity was a crisis! now, as it happens i don't think this food competition is a good thing as it teaches you to over-ride your appetite cues, so i think that i'll serve stuff up in bowls, italian-style. but it gives you an idea, anyway, of how important it may have been that her wee brother wasn't getting scammed by you, which is rather sweet in a way.

dd once protested that I talked to ds for 45 seconds and to her for only 30! Oh good grief.

see... i just don't think you're getting it, KT.

But come ON, timing the lenght of time you talk to them....?!

I think Aitch is right, she was actually motivated by A Good Thing, making sure her brother got a fair deal. Your adult perspective is different, but that doesn't mean she's being unreasonable (although the way she went about it clearly wasn't desirable from your POV).

I'm also an eldest child and fairness was a HUGE thing for me. Still have to restrain myself now from comparing presents with my sister, for instance - even though I'm thirty-something. Not because I'd complain, obviously, I have managed to become a grown up, but I have this in-built justice monitor. Which has actually been bloody useful in all sorts of other areas - if only the rest of the world felt the ruddy same we'd have 99 per cent of the problems ironed out...

I know, KT, it does seem ridiculous, but I can really, really see it happening (and my mother was not a saint and did occasionally get VERY fed up with it).

OK then I accept she was acting out of concern for her brother. In a weird way.

KT, I don't think that timing the amount of time you talked to them is particularly unusual behaviour for a six year old. It would be totally wierd in an adult, but these things really matter to a certain kind of child. I was/am also a rather geeky eldest child, so perhaps that's why it makes sense to me!

FWIW, I don't particularly subscribe to the "if you haven't got anything nice to say..." school of thought - your dd sounds highly intelligent, and thinking critically is part of that. Obviously children need to learn not to be judgy and not to say critical things to people's faces, but as others have pointed out, critical thinking can also go hand in hand with concern for justice, truth etc. Perhaps one of the reasons she feels/acts awkward is because she is confused by some of the mixed messages/contradictions she sees around her?(Not in your family particularly, but just in the world in general.)

I don't like the "if you haven't got anything nice to say" thing either, but I have occasionally said it in moments of desperation, which is when I don't know what to do or say and probably revert to copying the way my parents were with me.

dd also once said that she wished she was the youngest then she would be the "special-est". They really know how to go for the jugular don't they? It was said in the context of me following dd2 (then 15 months and just walking) around at the playground and not being able to stay next to dd1 and ds (who was not in the least bothered) as much as she wanted. I did lots of reassuring and also explained that I did that with her when she was that age and why etc etc, but still felt guilty.

I think madamez said something quite interesting about you trying to make her into something she isn't.

I guess this is just the way she is. Quite a lot of children are like this I think (I am an eldest too and am still a very black and white sort of person, not very good with the grey, feel comfortable with rules, though I always liked being on my own!).

I think the attention seeking can be hard but is very much a feature of some children (one of mine is an excellent attention seeker, very impressive!). She's probably just trying to figure all the situations out - just trying to understand the 'rules' of social interaction and pecking order etc. but of course, as we all know, understanding 'rules' for social interaction is something that not even all adults have quite got right so she's got a lot of figuring out to do and that probably manifests itself in lots of questions and statements etc.

"OK then I accept she was acting out of concern for her brother. In a weird way."

how would you have her deal with a patently unfair situation, KT? shut up or speak up?

like the other eldests here, i can't bear unfairness, i find most mystifying when other people can just ignore it. like, really mystifying... no kidding. i don't get it AT ALL and i'm 37. what's your dh's eldest sibling like?

Yes foxinsocks, attention seeking is a feature. Not to focus on the irritating too much, but martyrdom has become quite a thing with her recently. The best example we have had lately (funny in retrospect) was at Easter time. We had friends over for dinner - their children were younger and dd had got bored very quickly. She suddenly appeared with a dramatic look on her face and declared "I'm too spoilt! I've had too much chocolate!" All the adults kind of stared at her in disbelief that a child would come out with something like that.

in fact, when i see people getting (imo, obv) picked on here i sometimes see how long i can go without posting, just as a weird test of myself. it's normally not long, i just don't have the self-control. i cannot compute peopel who don't stand up for others, and i don't mean that in an 'i'm great' way as it is actually quite awkward IRL and i'd prefer to be able to sit things out like most people. i wonder if that's what you saw when you thought your dd had a glint in her eye when she was telling him.

also, as a matter of interest, what would have prevented you from saying to grandpa at the till 'sorry, we have to queue again, cos dd has kindly pointed out that ds is getting swizzed here'? maybe she actually thought you'd be pleased? god knows what goes on in their brains, tbh, i remember being most upset when my folks couldn't see into my brain to see my motivation and judged me harshly for it.

oh I think it's marvellous but can fully appreciate how irritating it is. Dd is so bad, I have to laugh.

Our nanny and I had to have a serious chat with her yesterday because she had been eating berries and she KNOWS she musn't (she's 7 ffs!). She had the juice round her mouth and even tried to deny it.

Anyway, the nanny was saying 'you'd have to go to hospital and have your stomach pumped and it would be awful and you might have eaten a poisonous berry and then you could die' and dd said 'in the hospital, would I have my own bed and my own doctor? and then when I came out, I could tell everyone my stomach had to be pumped couldn't I'. She is always looking for an attention seeking opportunity. When we have people round, they suddenly morph into mad, weird children. It's just the way.

arrghh

Some children are just very good at this sort of thing!

I think it's a process of learning about situations and other people's reactions and liking the dramatic etc.

but WHY would she be mature enough to know that wasn't something you'd approve of her saying? presumably you don't want her to be spoilt? presumably you do limit her chocolate intake?

don't you remember how confusing it was to be that age, especially a girl with all that vocab and not yet the maturity to explain your thoughts?

AitchtwoCiao, obviously I want her to speak up about unfairness. But how far does this fairness thing go? I don't give them un-birthday presents for example, even though dd was obviously jealous on ds's last birthday. ds, on the other hand was just so excited to celebrate dd's birthday with her when it was the other way around.

dh and his older brother have never got on well although they can be civil nowadays. Don't know him all that well but don't think he's checking how much they're all getting from the parents. Why do you ask?

I think you just say in that situation 'you are older, therefore you are allowed a more expensive present so it's OK' (especially if ds is young enough/ not fussed enough to care)

she was looking for a rule there and in absence of a rule, she assumed everything had to be equal

what's his personality like, not whether he's still engaged in childish behaviour. ask your dh what he was like at that age.

actually, this is starting to get on my nerves a wee bit, which is ridiculous because i don't knwo you from adam, but you do seem to totally favour your ds.

so, brilliant that he was thrilled for your dd to have a good birthday. so what that she wasn't? they're not the same people. it's really unfair of you to compare them and frankly will add much more pressure to your dd's life, which will be counter-productive for you in any case.

so i do see that it's ridiculous, truly but i'm retiring from this for the night because i am rather unbelievably getting upset as i think you are being unfair on her.

aitch, you need to step into the grey. Come and join me, it's not so bad once we've found the courage to move off the black and white .

I must get to bed but KT, does she have any special things she does as the eldest? so can she go to bed a little bit later than the others or does she get a bit more pocket money or anything like that?

Oh no fox in socks I could never say that! That would definitely provoke a long and difficult discussion in the middle of the shop and then she would remember it every single time they were ever bought anything for the rest of their lives! She is always trying to catch me out by reminding me of the one time I didn't enforce a rule, sometimes remembering incidences from when she was 2! She has an amazing memory - everything she has ever seen or heard is in there, all neatly categorised for using at a later date.

AitchTwoCiao, of course I could have stopped granddad but I didn't. Re the chocolate thing - I think what was going on was she was bored playing with the other kids but knew that because the others were all playing happily then that was expected of her too. So instead of coming in and asking to sit with the adults or whatever, she thought up what she considered was a good thing to say to get sympathy which is attention.