Not sure how to help wife?

[TheBlueRaccoon]

Looking for a bit of advice.

My wife and I have just had a baby. First and foremost, he is amazing and so is my wife.

I’m having a real issue with how to help my wife.
she is breastfeeding, so is naturally tired, but she won’t take opportunities to sleep when she can.

We are mix feeding, as she feels that she isn’t making enough for the baby, which I’m completely fine with and never had a problem with, but she won’t feee him bottles through the night or she won’t express milk so I can’t feed him at night, but it constantly feels like she resents me for sleep (sort of) during that time.

I will wake up before work and take him so she can get a few hours uninterrupted sleep in and a shower in peace. Sometimes she takes that opportunity more often than not she won’t.
I do the housework if I’m not working or with the baby, or I’ll say to leave it until a day I finish early (I usually get back after 10pm so can’t put the vac on that time) but again, she won’t. I do the cooking on the days I’m back early enough to do so. I’m really trying and if there’s anything else I can do I’ll do it.

It feels like she’s trying to be a hero, but the result is both of us getting less sleep.

Her timing of things just feels off. For example, She’ll want to shower when the baby wants feeding, but I have nothing to feed him with - no expressed milk or no formula I’ll suggest getting a bottle ready just in case and she’s not keen on the idea, then I end up with a hungry screaming baby for the next 40 mins with no way to feed him. I feel utterly useless and it’s horrible watching him cry as I try everything to calm him but the one thing he wants I can’t give him.

Things like this happen all throughout the day and I'm stood there thinking “why didn’t you do this when he was asleep?”

I’m not getting anywhere near the amount of sleep she thinks I’m getting and I know both of us could be getting more if we did things a touch differently. It’s gotten to the point where I feel guilty for sleeping. So I jump myself awake if I hear her coming into the room.

we’ll go to appointments with midwives, health visitors and they’ll tell us things to try or things we could be doing and she doesn’t want to try them, then acts like I’m an idiot for suggesting what they’ve suggested.

Our lives are more difficult than they need to be and I can’t see why she can’t see it.

She is an amazing mum and wife, I’ve tried to be supportive but everything I say is taking as criticism or a dig when it’s not. It’s driving me up the wall.

I thought it could be a bit if PPD but I tried to raise it and it didn’t go well.

Any advice is appreciated.

Thank you so much! This is really helpful.

@Mamma5456 what do you think those of us exclusively BF do? (ie, what most of the world does?) I didn't take many breaks but when I did I had to leave my husband with "nothing to feed the baby." Fed him before, yes he'd cry sometimes to get back on the boob for comfort, but no way he was actually starving in the time it took me to come back. Then fed him again.

You can't really "plan" the schedule of a demand fed baby. The formula yes, but not the breast milk. They want it little and often in many cases. OP thinks his wife is disorganised but she is maybe just trying to respond with BF as often as possible. Op is interpreting this as guilt-motivated but maybe his wife is trying to keep as much milk as she can? She's not making it up that the more formula used the less milk she will have. I'm not saying she SHOULD do one or the other, that's up to her, but if she does want more milk, she needs to feed, and him demanding to give formula will sabotage that. MN can be super anti-bf so someone will probably say this is selfish but I don't agree personally. Nor do I think a baby crying for mum while she is in the shower is a "suffering baby."

I understand very well about keeping supply going. But 40 mins without breastfeeding or expressed milk or formula at hand is not fair to a newborn or to the dad. If the mum needs that time to herself and can't breastfeed or express then formula is sometimes needed.

By the sounds of it, you both are doing great. When I had my son, I was exactly like your wife but I think it came from the anxiety of being a new mum. Your post reads exactly how my partner was. For me, it was just time. Baby got older, things got easier, anxiety decreased. I wish I could give you some advice but I just think it took time for us.

Congratulations to you both on the new baby. Don’t take too much notice of the mean posts on here, you sound like you’re doing just fine. Having a new baby is hard. Just keep doing what you’re doing.

Please be kind to yourselves and each other. How old is your baby?
You are coping very well even though you are both exhausted. You are both getting up and dealing with the baby. You are both keeping the house clean and tidy. Your wife is breast feeding and you are going to work each day. You both need a good pat on the back for keeping going so well.
My niece became fixated about feeding her baby and its care and initially wouldn’t let her husband help out much. Now the baby is a year old and is a real daddy’s girl and her father does a lot of the child care so mum can rest while he is not at work.
Rearing a child is so much easier with team work. You will need to try and get into more of a routine but I know this is difficult. It does seem like your DP may have the baby blues so you will need to keep an eye on her mental health as my niece did end up with PND. This has now resolved on medication and they are a happy family unit.
Take things day by day and you will get there and things do get easier as the baby sleeps for longer periods and feeds a little less often.
keep gently trying to get mum and baby into a feeding routine so you can help out with feeds.
make sure you get some sleep as well as mum getting some sleep. Tag team!
good luck and enjoy your baby

If everyone talks to everyone like that on this forum, why can’t I when someone speaks to me like that first?

In my eyes, helping around the house is obvious and men should be doing that regardless if they have a baby or not. As I say, it’s their mess too. And I agree, they shouldn’t wait to be asked they should just see it needs doing and do it and I do. I did put that in my original post. So it’s just seemed like they only took from it what they wanted.

I apologise if I was rude, I’m tired and I don’t know what to do.

Its hard for some people to ask for help (even online) and I’m here out of pure desperation because I don’t know what to do.

you’re calling me out as rude and talking down to people. The same can be said for you, and I don’t see how that’s okay.

If your wife is about to go for a shower, ask tactfully 'Does he need a feed before you go?' or suchlike.
Don't just keep walking into the same situation.

Does your baby take a while to settle after feeding? Maybe you can do that, especially in the night.

I've been your wife, she's exhausted and drained and just surviving. You can't think straight when you're in this state of mind.Take her drinks and food, don't ask, ust take it to her bedside, when the babies sleeping ask how you can support her. The whole time you've been at work she might have been dealing with none stop crying so the baby crying for 40mins is nothing to her, I get what your saying about how she could shower while the baby is sleeping but maybe she's so drained she doesn't want to and it's taking her a lot of effort and energy to even get up to shower. Another thing maybe she wants you to have the baby while he's crying so she doesn't have to deal with the crying on her own, maybe she wants a break from breastfeeding. Breastfeeding is exhausting.

This is the last response I’m giving this user, but just to be clear I’ve “demanded” absolutely nothing. I’ve not formula fed when I’ve been told not to by my wife.

I have good reason to think it’s about guilt, its not just the first conclusion I’ve come to.

I’m trying to look after my wife’s wellbeing. It’s taking its toll on her and I can see it.

People struggling is not comparable. I’m under no illusion that I have it harder than my wife, I know the strain she’s under, but I am struggling with the situation too. I’m no good to her if I’m no good myself

Sorry you're being put through the wringer, OP. Mumsnet in the small hours is particularly brutal in my experience.

I have a 15 week old and suspect my partner could have written some of the things you're saying. I have begun to express now but baby hasn't had a bottle since a one-off when she was about a week old. He asks me to help him start bottle feeding but I have dragged my feet. I know I'm taking on too much of the load, which sometimes leaves me burnt out and desperate for a shower on MY schedule not baby's. Then baby is screaming and partner is looming up reproachfully and I feel I'm a terrible mum and therefore refuse future offers of time out and so the cycle begins again. I know that's not rational but it's perhaps an insight.

I think there's a huge difference when you're with a baby 24/7. Your brain never switches off. You're never just "you", you're constantly aware of where the baby is, their needs, their sleep cycle etc. I find it mentally wearing in a way that my partner (who goes to work and sleeps in a separate room) does not. But it also makes me double down on what's straightforward or appealing to me and I don't make enough space for my partner to take over where he can. I should be more flexible. Your wife should probably be more flexible. If she's rejecting professional advice it may be that she has a system worked out that in the here-and-now keeps her head just about above water. Making the advised changes would lead to long-term advantages but in the immediate moment might look like more hassle she could do without. Eg implementing a rough nap timetable is probably beneficial depending on baby's age, but feeding them to sleep whenever they show signs of tiredness is definitely the path of least resistance on a hard day.

I hope this makes sense? Sorry it's an essay. You've helped me see I could be more of a team with my partner if they helps at all. I took an not a planner or a scheduler, but he (just like you) is frustrated at not being able to help and I should be working with him to make that happen even though it feels practically easier (and there's a pride/instinct element too) to do it all by myself, my way.

I would just add that this is our second child. With the first he took a lot of shared parental leave and it was still like this to a degree. He took on way more of the care once baby was weaning and now they're thick as thieves. So it won't necessarily always be this way. Newborn days are tough and sometimes the parent at home is in survival mode regardless of the help offered. You sound like a really good dad and partner.

Oh dear OP. I really think there should be a warning message when men sign up to MN... "please be aware that if you are a man, many posters will automatically treat you like the scum of the earth and that every single thing you are doing is wrong, lazy, and abusive".

Just re the formula thing, while it does sound frustrating for you, I must say that breastfeeding mother's boobs can often dictate the feeds, just by the feel of them (in my experience anyway!). Sometimes she may feel "emptier" and may agree to formula, sometimes she'll feel full and ready to feed because she'll know she'll be uncomfortable by the next feed if she doesn't. Sometimes if she feels empty for a while she may want to feed just to try and stimulate supply. So maybe her lack of consistency could be for that reason. But I do agree that you doing a bottle once overnight could be really helpful to let her sleep, so just keep gently asking.

Other than that, I actually agree with your concern re her mood; I actually think she sounds a bit anxious/overwhelmed and hence is trying to do everything all the time so that she doesn't 'fail'. So I'd keep an eye on that, but just keep it in the back of your mind, and only bring it up again if you feel it's getting worse.

Hello
Pregnancy has actually reworked your wife’s brain Her amygdala has grown, she may be hyper vigilant and simply unable to ‘sleep when the baby is sleeping’. Someone pointing out that you ‘should’ go to sleep when you desperately want to but can’t is very enraging. Bear in mind this might be happening.

Have you learned how to soothe your baby? Like, actually experimented through trial and error even when the baby is screaming? Realistically my partner did not bother. He just wanted me to feed the kid every. single. time. It’s so shit being seen by your kid and your partner as one giant boob/ milk machine.

In short, you are super sure that the baby is hungry but maybe they aren’t? You might be totally wrong! You need to read more about BF if you don’t know the basics like increasing supply by feeding at night.

You cannot ‘optimise’ a newborn, you’re going to need to support your wife and that means being there even when she’s feeding the baby at times.

Yes to all this.

Also, bottle feeding at night will completely scupper her efforts to establish a good supply of breastmilk. At a minimum, she will need to breastfeed between 12 midnight and 2am to keep the supply going.

Pumping is a miserable experience. You work away for so long and produce very little, and you feel like a farm animal.

Stop expecting her to establish a schedule. Stop expecting her to jump at opportunities to sleep or shower or whatever. What that feels like to her is having her entire existence dictated by someone else - you or the baby.

Psychologically speaking, the experience of childbirth and adjusting to being on call and having your body available to the baby 24/7 is an enormous adjustment. It is like being hit by a train. On the surface you look more or less like you always did and you have the same voice and mannerisms, etc, but you are leading a completely new life, completely sleep deprived, and - enter stage right - people who have no idea of your experience telling you what's best for you. It's a time when a woman can feel profoundly alone and misunderstood and lost and even quite bullied. The fact that the suggestions are meant well makes no difference.

If she wants the experience of starting a simple chore and getting it done from start to finish, let her do that and don't criticise or tell her her time would be better spent doing something else. It's important to some women to feel they still have autonomy and agency even though they are at the beck and call of the baby all day and all night.

Equally, if she wants you to do all the chores, do that.

Be guided by her wishes.

I've been in your wife's position with our first, sounds like she's worrying about her supply from what you're saying, so her responses will be driven by her anxiety. Hopefully it will get easier as you go along.

In terms of practical suggestions, is she going for that long shower because she's just cracked and desperate for one? could you be more proactive in terms of offering she go for a shower or a nice bath as soon as you see the baby's just had a feed (run the bath for her while she's breastfeeding?) then give the baby a clean nappy and take them out for a walk in the sling or pram, whatever you guys are finding soothes the baby most? (Make sure you know how to correctly attach sling in advance, even with crying baby, or where the pramsuit is etc etc so you don't have to ask)
Our first would only sleep on me (ideally attached to boob) or in motion, so showering while the baby slept was not an option - baby would wake and cry which felt so stressful for me. I'd wait for dh to come home because I'd rather the baby screamed while being held than alone, if that makes sense. Dh would have to keep the baby in motion, not fun for him either but easier if actually taking a walk than hopping half-heartedly around the kitchen.

Take heart though, it won't last forever.

I think this is just having a newborn.

Being postpartum is awful for many women. Your body is in bits, your brain quite simply isn't functioning. Exhausted doesn't begin to cover it but you're flooded with hormones so you can't switch off - even when you sleep it's only lightly and every fibre of your being is still saying "baby baby baby baby". I understand not showering while the baby was asleep - no it's not logical but it's just one more job and sometimes when the baby is asleep you just want to sit in silence and stare into the abyss.

She probably does resent the sleep you're getting. That's not your fault, but yes she probably does. Everything had been equal in our relationship for nearly 20 years and then all of a sudden biology had fucked me over and we couldn't be equal at all. He was doing everything he could to support me but Christ there were moments I hated how different our lives were.

Getting breastfeeding established is exhausting. It's unreal. She kind of just has to get through that phase. I'm assuming your baby is very very new - IME it'll get a bit easier and then worse again during the six week growth spurt and then level off. Pumping is awful at the best of times so don't even mention it to her, let her decide how much she's willing to do. Likewise using formula will only delay her getting her supply up, so let her lead on how much to use.

Everything will be fine. Take your lead from your wife. A newborn isn't a problem you can fix with schedules and plans, they really like to (literally) shit on that. You're just along for the ride.

Things will settle.

Yes to all of this.

Suddenly everyone knows your whole life and your needs better than you. It's a profound shock to be dealing with that when every cell in your body is geared toward the care of the baby.

You simply do not sleep a restful sleep even after the baby starts sleeping through the night, and you cannot turn that ability on just because it would be the sensible thing to do. We have survived as a species because mothers are super sensitive to the needs of babies, and are not wired to relax and leave the baby to others.

OP- you're doing amazing and doing so much more than most other husbands do.
Your concerns show how much you care.

Listen, the baby is yours too, and if you're concerned he's hungry, feed him.
You don't need to get the nod from your wife if baby is in your care and hungry, knock up a bottle and feed him. As you say, it does sound like she's trying to be a hero and do it all but right now all 3 of you are struggling a bit and she needs to accept that 1) you work so you need to sleep 2) she can't do it all alone and doesn't need to, so why is she!? 3) if baby is in your care, you do what you feel you need to to settle baby. If that means a bottle of formula so be it.
I think your post is lovely and you sound like you're doing a fantastic job in trying to support your wife whilst juggling work too.

The baby needs feeding your wife is making herself unavailable to BF so you make a bottle up. If she doesn't like it tough. You can't leave a baby screaming for a feed for that long. I was stressed the first time I had to give my son a top up feed at 6 weeks. Had a microwave steriliser that took 8 minutes. Then had to cool the boiled water before adding the milk. It's not good for them screaming that long. They swallow too much air then can end up throwing the feed back up again no matter how much you wind them.

But if you're already doing mixed feeding at this stage then breastfeeding hasn't been established and she won't produce hardly any milk. You have to breastfeed on demand to keep up with the milk supply and that's just not happening. Get some of the pre made bottles it would make your life a heck of a lot easier.

Ps ignore most of these rude comments. MN is full of raging women who hate men.

First of all congratulations on the birth of your baby and welcome to the sleep deprivation club. How old is your baby? Those first few months are a minefield and unless you're lucky enough to have one of those super chilled newbies then you're winging it like the rest of us. In your original post you do come across as I know what to do and how to fix/organise this and to a postpartum mum that is most unhelpful and very irritating and I'm not surprised your wife left you with a screaming baby to go have a shower, most likely to show you what her day is actually like when you're not there. My first screamed none stop for the 1st 4 months when she wasn't near me and it was nothing to do with lack of milk just pure wanting to be with mom, the person who carried her for 9 months and whom she naturally felt safest with. My suggestion is that you keep doing what you're doing in terms of the household stuff and maybe take a step back in terms of pushing advice onto your partner and go with more open questions like.. How can I support you? What do you need from me right now? What do you think our baby needs right now? Shall we try and figure out this one together? That kind of vibe.
Good luck! It does get easier

I don't think making this kind of unilateral decision will be helpful. Discuss it again, yes absolutely. But as a mum establishing breastfeeding and trying to keep the show on the road I'd absolutely lose it if my partner just gave the baby formula without our having made a plan first. She's clearly overwhelmed and anxious, him imposing control in this way is unlikely to go well and isn't conducive to their working as a team.

The newborn phase is awful tbh especially if there are issues with feeding. I felt like such a failure that things weren’t working and I needed to use formula early on. I think men just see a hungry baby and want to go straight to formula but women often have much more complex relationships around it. I ended up having to give up breastfeeding quite early but it took me a long time to accept that and not feel guilty whereas my husband could be more logical. It may be that you can see things that are not working 100% but you have to accept that your wife will be dealing with massive emotions and you have to tread very gently and be there to support her.

A few of my friends managed mixed feeding well by scheduling a bottle of formula around 9/10pm so they could get a few hours of sleep from 8pm and then breast feed during the night to build up supply. The advice and guidance on mixed feeding is really rubbish but many people make it work.

@ladycarlotta if she makes herself unavailable to feed baby for 40 mins and just leaves him screaming then as the babies father he has every right and a duty of care to feed him.
If she wants baby exclusively BF then she needs to shower when baby sleeps which OP said she never does and is a completely valid point. If she can't be told that then it's a her problem. 🤷🏽‍♀️

I think you should read some of the very articulate and insightful posts on this thread to help you understand why "it's a her problem" is massively reductive and injurious.

@ladycarlotta he is her husband who is just trying to help her. Yes, he hasn't birthed the baby but he is well within his rights to have his say in these things as an active father and husband.
If she is not open to help and advice then struggle on but don't keep complaining about it or being mad at her husband who is offering help. Post partum is rough but sometimes you've got to swallow your pride and listen to someone else and accept help.