5 year old is so spoiled and ungrateful, feel so upset

[Sandragreen23]

I've always tried to do my best for my DS, groups, clubs, new outfits everyday he is out at the park softplay, meeting friends. Recently Ive just felt he is so spoilt and his attitude around getting new things is terrible, I cant go to the shops without him constantly asking for things then having a strop when I say no. With Christmas things have gotten worse, he just constantly asking for new things and to be taken out all the time. Today I've spent a lot of money taking him out to the panto, buying him a light up wand, then out to the xmas market afterwards for food and a ride on the carousel yet right after we went into a shop and he's lifting everything repeatedly asking me can he had this and why not when I say no. I feel at breaking point, I lost my temper and told him he'd ruined the day by being spoilt (keeping in mind id told him about ten times to stop asking for new toys and he just kept doing it) am I being unrealistic or is there anything I can do because im feeling so upset with everything now

Why are you spoiling him? You can't spoil him and then complain that he's spoiled.

Before you ask, yes, I am the mother of an only boy who learnt early in life that you don't get everything you ask for

I don't think that person was claiming to be perfect, none of us are and parenting classes are a good suggestion for someone who is struggling, although I have no idea where you would them.
OP YOU created this situation and you can't just suddenly decide to fix it by calling your child names, it took 5 years to get to this point so you aren't going to change things overnight. You can't suddenly decide he needs to change his behaviour and expect him to do so.
I also agree that some of the things you see as treats like new outfits probably aren't a big deal to your son
Its good that you see changes need to be made but start with small steps such as the above suggestions like warn him if he asks for things you will leave.

A forming brain is learning by trial and error. So far he’s learned that asking always results in getting.

When I was little asking got me told off, so I never asked for anything. I was taught to wait until I’m offered. I think that was too extreme as sometimes if you don’t ask, you don’t get! But you see what I’m saying.

Start dropping in some no’s and valid reasons why. That’s literally new information for his brain that adjusts it to “sometimes there’s a reason you can’t get what you want”

He will have a negative reaction and that’s where you stay stoic and follow through rather than giving in. The follow-through bit is where you get to display some stellar parenting or give in because it’s easier in the moment.

He isn't going to be excited/grateful about new clothes, park trips and activities. Hopefully he enjoys them but that's just his normal. And tbh nothing special - all children should have appropriate clothes, plenty of outdoor playtime and exposure to different experiences.

For the treats, I think that they can be overwhelming so I agree with what most posters have said - you as parent need to set the expectations in advance. I disagree that you should stop buying presents/treats, that's not necessary, but I think it would help him if he went out knowing what the position is.

For example, "We won't be buying anything from the gift shop today but you can have a hot chocolate".

Or "You can get something very small but no big gifts because Santa is coming soon".

I find gift shops and similar places quite overwhelming myself and I think my DC have a similar reaction - they're designed to make us think "Buy, buy, buy!" - so I do think small children need help on how to navigate being presented with lots of things they can't have.

He’s been grossly overindulged, so naturally feels he can have everything he wants. It will be hard to change and will take time

Well summed up!

I agree.

You’ve been teaching him to keep asking for things and are then surprised when he does just that.

Start by not overwhelming him, panto, christmas market, carsoul (sp?) and shops is too much. Before you go into shops says we’re only buying milk and bread today or whatever your shopping for but if you see some thing you like we can take a photo for ideas for your Christmas/birthday list.

He's 5 and he doesn't really understand money yet.
All you can do is keep saying no and explain that you spent all your money on soft play/panto etc. He will learn.
With mine I always set expectations before going somewhere too like "we're going to x place today , you can have an ice cream there but we're not buying anything in the shop".
I think 5 is still quite young to expect him to realise how much things cost and be considerate enough to not ask for things really.

He's not developmentally ready to delay gratification to the capacity that you're expecting him to.

Nobody likes to be told no but at 5 it is literally the worst thing that has ever happened to you. He doesn't have much else to put his life in perspective with, so obviously he is going to feel extremely strongly about being told no but he can't withhold the impulse to ask because he's just 5.

He's not ungrateful. All he knows is that sometimes when he sees something he likes and he asks for it he gets it, and he knows Christmas is coming up but it's still over 2 weeks away and that feels like an eternity to someone so little so the intensity of being told no and not knowing if it's coming ever is quite amplified.

You need to redirect it. We have been successful in saying if you see something you would like you need to take a photo of it and we will send it to santa to see if he can bring it in X sleeps. We get our phone camera out and let him take the picture.

He isn't behaving how he is to upset you or manipulate you, it just really is that deep at 5 year old.

Children aren't spoilt. Their parents spoil him. Just change things from now on. Introduce pocket money or a system where he works towards getting something he likes.

You indulge him with ‘things’ and attention then get annoyed when he demands things and attention.

Start living a simpler life and use the word no more.

Start having conversations about how lucky you are to have what you do. If he asks for another toy car, for example, you say something like ‘you can’t have another one today, but think how lucky you are to already have 10 toy cars at home’. You can point out things that you like and say ‘this is pretty, I like it but I don’t need it, so I’m not going to buy it’. And talk to him about money, that you get given x amount (this can be completely made up as he won’t understand it in any depth at this age) and you have to pay for everything out of this. Eg ‘my boss gives me £100 each week and I have to buy our food and pay for petrol and electricity this week and then I won’t have any money left to buy toys’. Tell him everything you do have to pay for and that sometimes you don’t have money left for more toys or treats. You can do some imaginary play based on this - him being a customer in a supermarket or similar. Children this age can understand the basic concept - I’ve been having this sort of conversation with my 4 year old for 6-12 months now as he was getting too used to hearing ‘yes’. Set his expectations before you go out, telling him he won’t be getting a new toy but if he sees one he likes, he can tell you so you can think about it for when he can next have a new one. When planning for days out, involve him and give him choices to reinforce that you can’t have everything. Eg, shall we go to soft play OR to a cafe for cake? You will need to suck it up and get through the inevitable tantrums while he gets used to changes and being told ‘no’ more often. You must stick to your guns though x

@Sandragreen23 I lost my temper and told him he'd ruined the day by being spoilt

Said with kindness but ............ a child isn't spoilt unless the parents have made them so.

Constantly giving them things may give them an activity-filled life, but doesn't teach them the value of things.

A parent who just gives, gives and gives things to a child - and then gets annoyed because the child has learned that they can just 'get stuff 'all the time - perhaps hasn't thought through the consequences of what they're doing.

A child doesn't just develop 'spoilt' -edness. Parents are the ones who have spoilt the child, because they haven't put boundaries in place on their own parenting behaviour.

Your child is 5 - how does he learn if his parents don't help him?? It's natural for a 5 year old child to want EVERYTHING they see that they like. And your child isn't going to understand the word 'no' if they don't often hear it.

I really don't mean to be harsh OP, but you're the adult here ............... a child will turn out 'spoilt' if that's how the parents have raised them

Op I do think you need to watch this cycle of overindulgence then telling off and blame

It won't help him

One tip for the shops op, which I found really worked, is you explain when you leave the house that if he keeps mithering for things, you will leave the shop immediately. Then once again outside the shop, get down at his level and explain that if he constantly asks for things, you will both be leaving immediately. It's a right pita to have to follow through, especially in the supermarket, but once they know you mean business, they stop.

Same rule in the car. If they make a fuss and distract you from driving. Pull in at the next safe parking spot and sit there doing absolutely nothing until they behave.

Same tactic in cafés, even if you are half way through an ice cream. If the behaviour is not good, you leave straightaway.

And obviously cut down massively on the treats and presents.

I'm old fashioned, and frankly just old 😄, but personally for a five year old, I think a trip to the panto is more than enough of a treat for one day.

I'd be doing a Christmas market a week later.

And maybe a carousel ride then eating out a week after that.

And that gives him half a chance of behaving well.

Why cram potentially three weeks of treats in to one day? What's the rush? He is probably over-tired and over-stimulated. And it's hard on your pocket.

You can always add to the experiences at home in a calmer way by reading a book about a fairground or colouring in a helter skelter or just talking about a Christmas market and what to expect there, or making a gingerbread man in play doh or out of an Amazon package?

If you take it all at a slower pace, he can be rested and take in each experience fully in a more detailed way, and appreciate each one at a time.

And like pp said, start demonstrating gratitude yourself. Aren't we lucky to be in a clean, warm house, or to have hot food, or a comfy bed and lots of toys? Some people don't have a home and have to sleep outside. Some children don't get any toys for Christmas. He's old enough to grasp basic concepts like this.

And when he is a older, on his birthday, give him £10 and a calculator and help him choose presents within a budget.

Good luck.

Stop buying things and tell yourself child something you like about them and that you look forward to sharing making something simple with them, share a movie or suchlike. Time, time, a little time is better than lots of meaningless spending.

I've always been much stricter than my husband about not spending excessive money on the kids (although it was easy for me to set the tone when they were little, because we didn't have any money!)
Meanwhile his brother is very well off, and spends literally hundreds on his kids every weekend.

Genuinely, our kids are happier. Our nephews have everything they could ever want, and whole bunch of other stuff they didn't even particularly want. But they never get that feeling of really wanting something for ages, and finally actually getting it when they really weren't expecting it.

Also, if we pay for a day out at a zoo/theme park etc my kids know we'll be taking a packed lunch, and there's zero chance we're spending more money in the gift shop. So they just get on and enjoy the experience (that we've paid a lot of money for!) My nephews don't even notice the experience, never mind appreciate it, because they're on the lookout for crap they can pester for.

Its really good for kids to experience a level of disappointment. I don't think they can actually understand the concept of gratitude if they don't understand disappointment.

Sorry I haven't read the full thread, my 4.5 year old will always ask for things in shops and if I don't want there to be a meltdown I have to prep her quite a bit before hand that we aren't getting anything. So if we went to a panto like you, id have to be really clear before hand that she was/wasn't getting a light up wand and whether or not getting one then meant she wouldn't get something else etc. I don't buy her that much so I don't think she has been spoiled, she's just excited about everything and sometimes she does get things so why wouldn't she ask every time. I think what your child is doing is quite normal and you just have to find your ways to deal with it.

Mine was like that at that age, and isn’t now aged 8. I didn’t do anything different, just he got older and better able to control his impulses and understood he couldn’t have everything he saw.

Aged 5 they think you are omnipotent and really don’t understand why you are saying no, except to arbitrarily punish them.

It's difficult because you see all the lovely things you have done with him (panto, xmas market, food) but those are your choices. Of course you are choosing those things with the expectation that he will enjoy them.

When he goes to a shop and sees toys within reach - those are his direct choices. One is not the same as the other. His choice of toy is completely separate from your choice of panto. Even if the outcome is the same - a lovely thing for him. The journey/decision-making process is different.

So you have to tell him. We are going into the shop but we are not going to choose a toy because this trip is for bread and milk only and when we get home we can play with your xxx/you can watch an episode of xxx.

Or don't set him up to fail by taking him somewhere he might struggle with on a day when you are all 'gived' out. If you had gone to the shop on a regular day when nothing else had happened and he had asked for a toy, you might have had more fuel in the tank to respond reasonably.

This is so spot on!

“Because I had X amount of money to take you somewhere nice today, the panto cost A, the wand cost B, and food ect cost C, so now we don’t have enough pennies left today to buy any more treats. If I had more pennies, I would love to buy it for you, because it would be nice wouldn’t it? Maybe we can come back another day when we have a bit more money”

I get trapped in a ‘no you can’t have that, because I said so now come on!’ Rut when I’m overwhelmed, but I do find explaining the money side of things and validating the fact that it would be nice to have what they’re asking for, does really help.

Spend time with him instead of money on him. Love isn't buying things then expecting someone to be happy. It's giving your time and attention.

All kids howl for stuff sometimes.

I'm not quite understanding why some PP think that children need 'preparation' before a shopping trip to avoid a 'meltdown'.

Why should they? It's quite normal for children to ask for things and quite normal for parents to say 'no'. It's part of family life.

Yes, some children easily accept 'no' and others put up more of a fight
(and I know that children with ADHD / ASD present a completely different challenge to parents - but OP hasn't mentioned her child as having these traits)

But it's also true that children understand a tone of voice when a parent says 'no' and means it.

Too often, I've heard parents saying 'no' to their children without being firm / as an automatic response / or saying 'no, because .........' in an attempt to reason with their child.
Children sense weakness!!

And they know when parents are parenting and when they're distracted / feeling overwhelmed / have taken their eye off the ball.

Think back to your childhood - sometimes you knew you could push the boundaries ............. and sometimes you knew not to argue with your mum or dad! 😳

I agree. Also this:

talk to him about money, that you get given x amount (this can be completely made up as he won’t understand it in any depth at this age) and you have to pay for everything out of this. Eg ‘my boss gives me £100 each week and I have to buy our food and pay for petrol and electricity this week and then I won’t have any money left to buy toys’. Tell him everything you do have to pay for and that sometimes you don’t have money left for more toys or treats. You can do some imaginary play based on this - him being a customer in a supermarket or similar. Children this age can understand the basic concept - I’ve been having this sort of conversation with my 4 year old for 6-12 months now

If, say, we had a happy meal, I'd explain to my (grand-) children that this costs £x, and that the people who worked there have to work, say, 20 minutes to earn that sum of money. Or I'd say that if we bought 'the thing that you want', I'd not have enough money left to buy food for dinner. Keep reinforcing - it will sink in over time. Every day is a learning opportunity.

But above all, spend one on one time with your child. Interact with him, listen to him, talk to him, do things WITH him rather than buying lots of passive entertainment.