6 year old DD won't leave me alone or play by herself

[Storybot]

At my absolute wits end. We got in to good habits over the summer of an hour before bed where she could play in her room or in the bath but she's point blank refusing playing in her room without me there.

I love playing board games, cards, colouring, we read, do crafts. But I fucking hate sitting in her messy room playing with dolls. It's boring, everything I do is wrong, and I'm crap at it. I've tried talking to her, getting cross, explaining that if she plays with her toys she's more likely to get good presents at Xmas or birthdays because I only like buying toys I know she'll play with. I busy myself with other stuff in the hope she'll get bored and go off, this occasionally works. She went up tonight while I cleaned the kitchen but came back 10 mins later to say she was bored and had played with everything already

Her responses range from she doesn't have enough hands to do the games with her dolls to straight out shouting NO in my face.

Bedtimes are also horrendous at the moment. We could have a lovely story or bath but the second she is required to do any basic task like go to the toilet, move from my bed where we've read a story in to he room the refusal begins, lying in our bed refusing to move, dragging herself across the floor at snails pace etc, not getting out the bath. The angrier I get the angrier and worse behaved she gets, so I know getting cross doesn't work but it's the end of the day, I'm tired and I want her to go to bed without a massive song and dance.

Some nights DH and I can tag team and when the first person is losing their temper the other takes over, but DH works in the evenings often so this isn't a guarantee.

Nearly every night bed time ends in me leaving DD in bed with me fuming and her in a strop.

Are there any practical suggestions? I feel the bedtimes have declined in line with the lack of independent play. She's 6 and I can still rarely go to the toilet or have a bath on my own unless she's out or watching tv

Honestly she sounds similar to my eldest who has ADHD and my middle one who is being assessed for ADHD. Both the inability to self-entertain but also things like shouting in your face and the specifically infuriating bedtime tactics, and anger/irritation from you winding them up more, rather than being taken as more of a warning that they are pushing their luck. They also both direct[ed] play overly so I end up feeling annoyed because I've made the effort to sit down and join in with the trains or whatever but then I'm not allowed to drive down that track because there is some impossibly complicated set of rules that I can't remember.

The middle is better at self-entertaining probably because he has a younger, close in age sibling (10 years between the first two) plus he's being assessed for autism as well and he can immerse himself in the world of trains for ages if he's in the right mood. But both of them will/would do this insistence that they can't possibly be alone, whining, following you around, flopping. Even if you give them loads of attention at other times.

I will get lambasted for mentioning the A word but there you are. Happy to answer any other questions.

What tends to help IME is that, if there are particular games you really can't stand playing, take a hard line on it and just say no and that you don't like that game.

And yes do just walk away and say OK I have to do the washing up now DD - and do it. If she wants to come and sit at your ankles that's OK as long as she isn't stopping you from doing your task or deliberately annoying you. If I am doing something else I say "I can't play right now as I'm busy." I might say after I finish these tasks, I'll do X with you.

You could offer to play some adjacent thing e.g. sew some new outfits for the dolls together, write a story about the dolls.

If she doesn't have a close in age sibling who will play with her, encourage her to invite friends over. They entertain each other and you can sneak off and MN clean, or drink coffee in peace. (If this always goes wrong this might be worth a try: https://chadd.org/attention-article/how-you-can-be-a-friendship-coach-for-your-child-with-adhd/)

I have also had it suggested to me to employ a local teenager/friend's preteen child etc as a sort of mother's help/child entertainer. (Or swap babysitting favours with their parent?) Not really a babysitter if you're at home anyway. Though if said teen or preteen is responsible enough, you could pop out to the shop, or go for a run or whatever. I do find having a break from being the main co-regulator of DS2's moods helps my mood immensely. Because children/teens of that age will often just follow the child's lead in play, this apparently tends to work much better than an adult who wants the play to make sense or be stimulating.

I find it works best for DS2 if I can look at my watch and say OK - I'll play trains for 20 mins, then I need to go and change that washing over and put it away. I sort of alternate between some kind of joint activity, then a household chore or just a sit down alone time and then another activity with them. And it puts a time limit on the boring play that I can't stand.

I have also found that for DS2, that him dictating play and making it very rigid and boring for me (and probably other children) is an expression of a skill gap - he doesn't have the social skills to be aware of what might be boring/interesting for other people. What he actually wants is to have about eight hands (interesting that your DD says she doesn't have enough hands for the dolls) so he can play out the fascinating train scenario which exists in his head. So then when I come along and have my own idea, it's not what he expected and I get shouted at. Which makes me grumpy because in my head if I want to play, then I want to be allowed to play, not be told what to do. With DS1, I was a lot younger and I mainly used to get exasperated and snap that I don't like being told what to do or I want to play the way I want to. With DS2, I have found that I can be a lot calmer and softer and use it as an opportunity to explain what's difficult about this for me. So for example, I started explaining that it's hard for me to remember all of the tram rules. He thought about this and he said "Okay, you can forget the rules and drive wherever you want." We had a MUCH nicer play session. And maybe that will transfer for him, so when he tries to play with other children, he realises that maybe making loads of complicated rules and then screaming or launching himself at people when they break them might not be the best way to get people to play with him. I also started explaining things which might seem obvious but genuinely seem to be a surprise to him, like when you play with other people, part of the fun is that you don't actually know what they are going to say or do.

I have just had another idea which is that I might see if I can rig up some kind of setup for him where he can record all the different trains driving around so that he really can recreate that "8 hands" experience.

Lastly, I need to watch this again but it had some great suggestions in it and I definitely felt like I wish I had had this when DS1 was little.

I don't think you're unreasonable at all to want that. You're not mean, that was a ridiculous comment.

Yeah an hour playing is just miserable - parenting is enough work as it is without enforced playing. All that being told off and directed and not 'doing it right'.

I would generally never do pretend play apart from in the form of puppet shows when they were in the bath.

I'd do a couple of board games or sit and do a couple of crafts and then that was their lot. But I was happy to read and chat to them, I'm affectionate, loving and patient and laugh a lot so feel like I'm not that bothered that I don't play.

My older 2 may have played together but there's a gap between them and the youngest and she was great at playing independently. She would ask for me to play dolls with her but I'd only really do it maybe at the weekend when I had the head space for it and even then only for about 20 mins max. I take my hat off to people that can but I could no more sit and do an hours pretend play than I could run a marathon right now - impossible.

I am an only child. My mum once said to me it's a complete fiction to say that having one child is easier. In the early toddler years I didn't believe her, but now I do. This is the time that my 4 and 7 year olds play together.

I have a lot of sympathy as I loathe imaginative play too. Just can't do it. But she's very young. If tv makes her comfortable so you can get stuff done, just put it on. No guilt.

In terms of the wider issues: can you organise more play dates? Can she help you with the tasks that need doing? (You might find that encourages her to go off and do independent play as it's preferable).

I do agree you've got to reset the whole thing so she doesn't feel negatively about her room or push you away later on in teens due to rejection. The thing that helps me when I'm really loosing my mind with it all is to pretend that I'm really in my 80s and a magician has given me one day back with my children when they were young: if this was the only bedtime I had with them again, how would we be together? What would I be saying etc? How much longer would I cuddle/read for? It's cheesy but it does work. It especially helps me put a lid on it when tiredness and being an older working mum leads me to being a bit 'shouty mum'

A thought: it might be helpful to just mix things up. It all sounds stressful and like it might end up messing more broadly with bedtime and sleep. The goal of wanting her to play independently is a perfectly sensible one, and it will come in time. But for now, why not take a few months where you just let it go. She doesn’t need imaginative play as an urgent thing, and it won’t matter if her dolls are idle for a bit. Relax, do some other stuff, perhaps in a different place, and work on restoring a nice bedtime that feels positive for both of you.

then once the vibes have moved on a bit, then come back to the question of how best to get more solo imaginative play to happen (though I must confess I never really saw much of this from mine!)

I like doing Lego as it's not imagination based and can follow instructions

😮 Lego is not imagination based?!?!

How can you think that?!

I used to build all kinds of mad contraptions with Lego and then play games with what I built. Once I built an entire space colony on the moon and then fought off alien invaders (jelly babies).

You don’t have to build only what the instruction books tell you.

Dolls, especially Barbies, are rubbish for imaginative play.

@BottomlessBrunch exactly. The OP is getting alot of unnecessary flack, I feel.
I don't really do imaginative play either. I don't enjoy it. Why? Because I'm an adult. There's a reason I don't have toys anymore, except the odd one I keep in my bedside drawer.

Talking, board games, crafts, baking, yea I'll do that.

I think some posters are reading OP's tone as being negative like she never has time for her DD and is always brushing her off, but I think it is difficult to understand the intensity of a child like this if you don't have one.

Some people have described games like a child playing restaurant where the parent needs to make an order every so often, or dolls "talking to" mum who is washing up or DC making pretend food that OP can pretend to put away.

If OP's DD is like my kids then you don't get that kind of play - you get a restaurant which cannot possibly operate without the parent constantly making orders and then being demanded to eat said order and then making another order instantly and being asked the same repetitive questions for each order. It's easier when there is another adult around because at least you get to take turns!

You don't get dolls who come up with ideas, because the child is reliant on the parent to come up with ideas and so you have to have half a brain thinking of things for the dolls to say and that doesn't spark off a new track of play, it just leads to another demand of you.

It's exhausting and while it's fine to engage with this in short bursts it is extremely draining when it's hours on end every day. It's sad because it means they don't even get that nice quality playtime because you're always dreading it and feeling resentful about it.

A nice thing I heard on a podcast which I have been leaning into is "Use a confident no to protect an enthusiastic yes" - the person was basically explaining if you always say "yes" (I'll play with you / you can help me) to every request your child makes for attention because you feel guilty about saying no, you will be resentful, weary and irritable and it will show. Whereas if you say no, I'm doing this at the moment, then you can say yes when you genuinely feel enthusiasm for the thing they are asking and/or you feel refreshed enough that you can commit to it for 15 mins or whatever.

I sympathise- I hate imaginative play. Really agree with what you say @BertieBotts about how wearing it can be. I do think that age is hard for a kid that likes company, and expecting imaginative play on their own for any real length of time is v difficult! Maybe slightly more structured imagination stuff like story dice is less tedious than dolls? It got better for us as DD got older, and we instigated 'reading club' in the evenings. And I think educational screen time can be good when reading has developed more- eg duo lingo?. And yes def stuff like Lego or Hama beads, or friendship bracelets could be a good structured alternative that is more conducive to being done without loads of attention and input

If you're playing with her after school aswel then for the last hour before bed, why not just settle down and watch a tv show together, then take her up to her bed and read a story to her. That way, it's a more calm and relaxed period before she goes to sleep.

I can't edit my post but just wanted to add that when my DD's was little, when we would sit and watch a show together before bed they would both sit and do my hair and play hairdressers. They didnt really take all that notice in the tv because they was playing but it meant that I could just sit down and chill out for a bit after a long day but still kept the kids entertained lol

I'm always puzzled by these 'bedtimes are exhausting' posts. I remember bedtimes with my children as the best of times.

We'd go up to their room and look out the window on the landing along the way. Looking at aircraft coming in to land and 'saying goodnight to London'. Tucking them into their beds and reading stories for half an hour. Singing 'Twinkle twinkle little star' and the like. Then hugs and kisses and lights out. 'Good night - don't let the bed bugs bite'.

I'd give anything to have those times again.

My DD (8) is an only. The wanting someone to play with is really normal and understandable. The favourite parent is also normal. I get really bored trying to play with her because I have zero imagination and always feel like I should be doing something “useful” instead.

Things that have helped - playing Top Trumps together (her rules, let her win), do a tricky jigsaw together, getting her Lego sets she can follow the instructions to and build by herself, crystal art / Hama beads / water beads, and honestly a bit of tv doesn’t hurt that much (the worst witch and Malory towers on iplayer are pretty chill)

I think you just need to try and remember that you’re a parent and she’s a child, she’s not your peer that you can reason with, she’s your responsibility that you need to treat with love and kindness and understanding.

This is how bedtimes are for us too. I love it. I think some parents try to cram too much in around bedtime.

This is fantastic advice! Your ds2 sounds much like my ds who is almost 5 - he's always loved his imaginary play but it's always been very rigid and often extremely repetitive and he gets easily frustrated by things not being "just right". We used similar tactics to you - mix between dedicated play time and "checking in and out" between play and jobs. We also need to (repeatedly) calmly explain how hard it can be following rules, especially in "new" set ups and that other kids will play differently etc. I'm often amazed how he can have whole scenarios and set ups mapped out in his head!

Tbf I think you sound like you do quite a lot. Mine hates imaginative play thank god, it’s awful. Honestly we get ours to help a bit with tidying up and she watches a bit of tv and bedtime usually involves her reading to herself and then us reading to her too (a lot of reading as a wind down).

I would suggest signing her up to some clubs after school or do your supermarket shop or run errands. It sounds like you do spend a lot of time playing with her to me and it may just feel like its a bit too much as you get towards the end of the day to do another hour.

Have you tried offering her what she wants in a clearly defined way? Like telling her ‘yes, we can play dolls for half an hour. Then I have to go and do X’. Then give her half an hour of absolutely undivided attention, playing with her exactly on her terms. At the end of the time, uphold the boundary that you have to go and do things but reassure her you’ll return to play at X time in future.

Sometimes children who feel they’re having to fight for the playtime they want get very needy and insecure about it. If she doesn’t know when it’s coming or how long it will be, and senses you don’t want to be there, she will always be looking for opportunities to get you to do it. Whereas if she knows she can trust you to be there and playing with full engagement at the allotted time, she’s more likely to leave you alone in between.

solo playtime can be boring and difficult for young children. And imaginative play is really important. I absolutely understand why it feels like such a chore, but really committing to it for a defined period a couple of times a day could be a game changer for you both.

I suspect it will help with bedtimes too - partly because her cup will be full of your attention and she won’t need to engage it negatively or drag out her time with you, and partly because she will have more experience of you engaging with her whilst also upholding boundaries around your time and energy.

If you don't like playing Barbie's, why are you doing it? You're playing with a lot of other stuff with her by the sound of it, you don't have to play everything. Just refuse.
Come play dolls mum.
No, I don't find them fun.
But I want you to play with me!
No problem, I'll do x or y after I've finished the dishwasher. Why don't you go play with your babies and I'll shout when I'm done.

Just because she wants something, doesn't mean you have to do it.

Why don’t you invite friends round to play? I guess I can’t remember my kids being bored as they were always outside playing with others. My 6 year old gd loves to play with us, but she much prefers playing with her friends. The only consolation is that is a few years you won’t be able to prise her out of her room. One good tip - play hospitals and you can be the patient and lie on the sofa.

Yes I don’t mind play dough too!
Ha yes that’s brave not sure I’d risk it with real water and shampoo! :)
Its tricky. Mine has an older sibling who is a fair bit older but I can usually get her to join in for half an hour. Although does often end up in arguments!

Oh yes get a doctors kit! I don’t mind that game either lying on the sofa while they check you and some stuffed animals 🤣

My children will happily play/ learn independently for an hour (age 9,7 and 3). Of course you’re in earshot and they aren’t locked away

I think the difference there is that they have each other to play with. That isn't the same as being an only child who wants someone to play with. In that case it ends up being the parent who is present, in this case the op.

Thank you lots of suggestions to think about. She has play dates and neighbours who she plays with, though that has died down a bit now it's winter. I will try and embrace it for a while and that may improve bed times as well.

Thank you 😊 yes it is very intense. With restaurants I am both the co- chef and the customers. She has a doctor's bag etc but usually I have to be the doctor and that involves making casts out of toilet roll while also being the parent of the injured child visiting in hospital. Unfortunately not lying on the sofa being the patient.

A reward chart is good…… a big piece of A1 card ….. divide it up into four sections……

getting ready in the morning….. brushing teeth….. going to bed nicely and bonus……

Sounds silly but works for me…… after 20 stickers he gets a new toy.