Unfriendly park mums

[AmberBee34]

I’m a SAHM to my 13 month DD, and live on a quiet street with a nice park just across the road from my house. As we don’t have much of a back yard I’ve been taking her to this park several times a day. My issue is that there is a big group of parents with slightly older children who go there every afternoon and are obviously really good friends. They say hello to me and I’ve had many conversations with each of them individually, but when they are in a group they stick to themselves and will talk to me if I talk to them but then just go back to talking in the group. Sometimes they will sit around with food etc and not offer me to join in (I think I would - but I’m very conscious of ppl being by themselves etc). This is a small park so I’m starting to feel very uncomfortable and excluded and it’s now almost a year I’ve been smiling and friendly but it’s still like this. I don’t want to stop going there as it’s very convenient for me and DD but this is starting to get me down. I should add I had issues when I was growing up with bullying and I’ve also struggled to make the mum friends I was hoping to (despite making lots of effort to meet ppl etc, one of the park mums I invited for coffee but it was not reciprocated) since DD was born so I’m sure this is playing into it. Just feeling isolated and lonely and think this is all making it worse. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks x

I have a big group of school mum friends. My older dc is 14 now so I’ve known them a long time. We socialise as a big group and also meet in the park in smaller groups, as some of us have younger dc. We do tend to organise picnics and stuff and sit together. I’ll be honest, I’m happy to say hi and have polite chat with other parents in the park but when we get together we talk about personal stuff and things about our lives we wouldn’t want anyone else to know. We all work full time and don’t get to see each other as often as we’d like. It’s as much a social interaction for us as it is for our kids. You can’t just expect them to include you every single time as you're not their friend. They shouldn’t have to stop meeting up as a group because it makes you feel bad. It’s a public place and they’re entitled to enjoy it as they see fit.

I don't think I'd expect to be included with a group of strangers in a public place like a park. They all probably know each other away from the park and they are just arranging to meet there. If you want to make mum friends a parent/toddler stay and play might be a good place to start but you have to really initiate conversation.

You’re taking this way too personally. They’re an established friendship group with older kids meeting in a public place. You’re not being ‘excluded’. It’s not awkward. It’s just not even a thing. Just take your daughter to the swings and toddle about however suits you guys (can’t imagine your DD can do much else at only 13MO) then go home. Try groups for her age if you want to make friends.

Even if they invited you sit down, if they have older DC and yours is 13 months then you're going to have to spend the entire time away from them supervising your DC anyway.

Take some headphones and listen to an audiobook.

I found making mum friends easiest when my baby was newborn and you could get to know people in groups etc while they were feeding / sleeping and mums were happy to just talk baby questions and advice all the time.
At around 13 months I found it harder to make conversation at groups etc because by that stage you want to talk about other things and it became harder to just strike up conversations with random people.
But by the time DC was 18 months and started interacting with other children it became easier again as I would chat to the parent of whoever DC was playing with.
Also the close mum friends I have are people who I would be friends with pre kids, ie we share interests outside of kids, so maybe try and go to groups that align (loosely!) with your interests - is there a local forest school or maybe football or the local library?

Thanks everyone. To be clear, I was not hoping to be invited to share food, it was just a (possibly bad!) example. I don’t try and force my way into this group and appreciate the perspective this has given me. I’ll just play with my DD and go home when finished with no expectation of social interaction with them. Sounds like the best way.

Op this is never going to work. They are an established group with older children meeting up. Your child is a completely different different age and stage.

You need to find friends with similar aged children and keep going along this route. It is never going to work otherwise, most mothers of young children are there for their children not themselves.

Develop some hobbies so you can meet friends of your own.

@AmberBee34

I felt you reading this, I remember similar when my kids were small. I was picked on and excluded as an adolescent and so would often be the first to say to any lone person in a social situation ‘come and sit with us.’ I also had parents who are best described as ‘complicated’ and have had a lifelong struggle with social anxiety (which is well-masked but leaves me weary sometimes).

A super-secure and socially adept friend once told me - ‘just because someone doesn’t like you doesn’t mean they don’t like you.’ As in, to them you’re neutral. Not in the group but no intention to exclude either. Just an NPC. I’d like it if people were more inclusive too, but they’re not. It’s nothing personal and there are loads of reasons why it probably didn’t occur to anyone to be like ‘come and sit with us.’ Don’t worry about it (easily said I know).

I never wanted more friends before I had DD and was quite career focused, however I’m not planning to go back to work until DD is two (for personal reasons based on my own childhood, which was not great). So it seems like a long time between now and then feeling isolated like this. I’ll keep trying with groups. I have a made a few friends but one works and the other I only see once a week. I’m an introvert but like social interaction. The days just feel long just me and DD and I wonder if DD might enjoy it too if we were around friends more.

This is completely normal. They’re friends meeting up with their children who are the same age. It’s polite to say hello in passing or oops sorry in their dc stumbled into yours, but it would be a bit odd to include you in their snacks and general conversation. It just sounds like you are people from the village who know yin passing, not friends, so what they’re doing isn’t rude or bullying. I’d feel awkward feeding some random at the park my snacks too.

You need to find your own cohort of friends with babies. See if there is something like a walking group or exercise group for mums with babies, something that isn’t a baby class, but more an activity for you that you can bring a baby to. Or a playgroup at the village hall.

Honestly though, I think most people don’t have close mum friends until school. I only had a group from my NCT class, not from any baby groups. And my mum friends from school now are only friends because they’re neighbours or our dc are close friends. I didn’t really just meet anyone randomly out and about. By and large, my friends are just my friends who I always knew pre-children because we actually have something in common.

You don't need to feel awkward. It's a public place and have as much right to be there as they do, even if you feel a bit awkward. You could just say hello to them if you see them and get into conversation if it happens naturally but not really expect any more than that.

People can be friends with other people. They’ve been polite to you but your kids are different age, why would you think they’d want to include you in their friendship group?

Op. I mean this gently but you’re not being excluded. No more than if you go to a restaurant and a group of women don’t invite you to join them. You are not entitled to join and you are not being excluded in any way shape nor form.

these women are not unfriendly. They converse with you politely, but this doesn’t mean you’re entitled to join their group and be invited and if you’re not you’re excluded. People are allowed to be friends, to make plans, and to not invite everyone they see near them.

you need to find a new way to make friends, but hanging round the park feeling slighted as people don’t invite you isn’t it. I’m sorry.

You're not "being excluded". They're an established group of friends, who don't know you. They're not ignoring you, they say hi, not sure why you'd expect more from them?

Have you tried the peanut app?

Sorry you feel uncomfortable op.
You need to make friends with someone who has a child the sane age as you and go to the park together op.

It's not their responsibility.
Is there anyone at the clubs you go to you could invite for a play meet up and coffee at the park?

Don't stop taking your child to the park. It's ok for other people you don't know to have friends and be in the same park. It's not a judgement on you.

I agree with this, sorry. They seem as though they’re a perfectly pleasant group of women, and friendly enough, but if they’ve arranged to meet with their friends, it’s unreasonable to expect to be treated as ‘one of them’ when really, you’re just casual acquaintances. They’re not being nasty. You shouldn’t stop going to the park, and enjoying yourself with your daughter tho, that sounds lovely for you both.

You are not being excluded by them though. They are a group of friends who sometimes go to the park. To them you are a random lady who sometimes happens to be in the park when they go.

When you are at playgroup next don't concentrate on not clicking with people there. See who your child plays nicely with and ask their mum if they would like to go to the park one day or for a coffee. I met one of my best friends this way although our initial conversation led me to believe that we would have nothing in common (as she was a vicar's wife and I have no belief).

You have two friends that is something you build on. Motherhood can feel very isolating at times, and lonely as lovely as it is. I think your plan to keep going to age appropriate clubs and activities is a good one. Once your child is in nursery and school you will automatically meet even more potential friends. You sound like a very nice person op.

They aren't excluding you, people don't owe you friendship just because they go to the same places you do. They are either a group that met at toddler group and go after nursery, or they met when older children were toddler and go for lunch and then do the school pick up. Either way then being friendly is enough which they are.

Parents with preschool children aren't going to be your target audience for friends and the park isn't a good place to make friends anyway. You need to be frequenting places where other people's babies are the same age as yours, so look at event brite for events, look at swimming pools, museums, art galleries, theatres for specific baby groups. Friendships take time to build from stranger to acquaintance to friend and you may never get to the deep friendship stage because often all you have in common is the babies and eventually most people go back to work and have very few precious days off.

I can sympathise OP, I had my first baby in lock down then two years later moved out of London to a small town just a few weeks before my DD was born.

There are plenty of mums in my new town and everyone's friendly, but quite a few of the 'groups' seem very established. They probably all grew up together and have lived here for 30+ years, or some will be NCT groups etc.

I have made a couple of individual mum friends through groups like monkey music, church playgroups, library rhyme time etc. but I can't say we 'click' and now im back to work is difficult to arrange to see them often.

Could you try and go to a regular group each morning and then playground in the afternoon? Swimming lessons were good with my son, the other parents were friendly. We also have a mum exercise group which I'd like to join but just don't have the time with two small ones.

Once she starts nursery, hopefully you can start having playdates. X

The way i approached it with moving to new area was chat with a mum 1 to 1 at a group, playground etc. Then be brave and say, Can we exchange numbers? It's been so nice chatting with you. Message to see if they want to meet. If sound keen, great. If a polite brush off, don't take it personally and move on. It takes effort at the start. Lots of smiling and little comments to break ice, can't get mine off the slide!! etc

I go to the park with some friends too and I have no interest in making friends with a stranger. I’d say hi and that would be it. I find it bizarre that I would be labelled as ‘unfriendly’ for not befriending a total stranger

I do empathise OP. If you are feeling lonely and isolated then seeing a group of mums all together can intensify those feelings. However as others have said they are not excluding you. This is an established group of friends with children older than yours and you can't expect to be included in a pre-arranged meet up. I quite often meet with my group of mum friends at a park for a picnic and it wouldn't even occur to us to invite a stranger to sit with us.

Don't stop going to the park but I wouldn't be relying it on a great way to meet people. Your idea of going to age appropriate groups is a good one. The age your daughter is at is unfortunately a difficult age to meet people. Most mums have gone back to work and even at toddler groups I found it hard to have conversations with my own friends as my son would be running everywhere needing supervision.

I know you have said you are not going back to work until your daughter is 2 due to your own childhood. Obviously I don't expect you to go into detail but you sound a loving and attentive mum and your daughters childhood isn't going to be the same as yours. We don't talk enough about isolation and loneliness in motherhood and this can lead to other mental health problems in some cases. You don't need to sacrifice your own needs and health to achieve this vision of an idyllic childhood. It might be worth considering even a few days back to work to help your own isolation and loneliness and children benefit from healthy happy parents. Mumsnet can be very anti childcare but a few days at a nursery/childminder won't harm your child and will give her different experiences and to be around other children. We aren't designed or biologically wired to parent alone and in isolation. Just some food for thought.

I think you have to see it from their perspective. For example, my best friend of 20 years and I have boys the same age. If we go to the park with our boys that's our only time to catch up. We've known each other so long, our conversations are very personal not small talk where we could easily include a stranger. We'd be polite and friendly but we wouldn't want to spend our only time together making polite chit chat.